Women Freemasons

Discussion in 'The Voting Booth' started by Blake Bowden, Sep 7, 2008.

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Should women be allowed to become Freemasons?

  1. Yes

    21 vote(s)
    8.7%
  2. No

    205 vote(s)
    85.1%
  3. Doesn't matter either way

    15 vote(s)
    6.2%
  1. Geeksgalore

    Geeksgalore Registered User

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    well thank goodness we are not all as ignorant and archaic as Texas. You are living in the past, it is no wonder your generation left a sour taste in peoples minds regarding Masonry. Well here's a news flash for you, the younger ones will be replacing you shortly and we will fix what you have destroyed. So now if you want to blast me for this post I strongly recommend that you read the discriminative post you just posted. Time to grow up and realize that the civil war is over and it is now 2011, we even have a Black President now!!

     
  2. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    If it isn't broke, there's nothing to fix. Making changes in the name of 'progress' when things are already fine will ultimately do more harm than good.

    I'm a young mason (younger than 30) and I see no problem with the way things are. I'd never vote for changes like you're suggesting and if passed I'd probably leave Freemasonry. I'm not a woman-hater or a sexist but if you change something around too much you'll end up with something far different than what you once had.

    Who destroyed what? I think that warrants some elaboration but I'll say it can't have to do with the topic of the post since women were never allowed to join.

    Honestly I don't get why anyone would press this agenda. There's a Grand Lodge in France that allows atheists to join but just because a few lodges allow something doesn't mean we should all adopt it.
     
  3. kwilbourn

    kwilbourn Registered User

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    Huh? You realize this thread is about women in Masonry, correct?

    Civil Rights is another issue, and the existence of 2 organizations that practice Masonry (Prince Hall and the Grand Lodges) in America is nothing new. In fact it is as old as America itself. The history of the Prince Hall lodges alone is enough for me to say that they should remain separate and retain their proud heritage. Should the Grand Lodges mutually recognize? Absolutely, and many already do or have the wheels turning in that direction.

    With regards to the topic at hand however, no Co-Masonic Lodge is listed in the List of Lodges Masonic in my jurisdiction, which happens to be Texas. I think you will find the same in your jurisdiction; they are by definition clandestine.

    I'm part of that "new generation", and I became a Mason because in our changing world, Freemasonry is one thing that has remained consistent. I can share what I have gained and learned with prior generations. That means something to me. Changing something so fundamental to the tenants of the Craft would remove that consistency.
     
  4. Geeksgalore

    Geeksgalore Registered User

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    They are not Clandestine in our district, thank goodness. Change is a constant and without it you become stagnant.

     
  5. kwilbourn

    kwilbourn Registered User

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    That's fair; in my world view progressive and changing doesn't necessarily mean improvement is happening.

    Allow me to put forth this analogy: some people like to take classic cars and turn them into hot rods. It flicks their switch or whatever. Change is definitely occuring, and they definitely see this as a change for the better, however an outside observer might look at the same car and weep for the loss of what it once was.

    Neither are wrong, but you won't have a very warm reception bringing that hot rod to the Concours d'Elegance.
     
  6. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    And someone gets to take 24 hours off from posting.

    Lively discussion is great. Off topic rambling and insulting people, however, is not.
     
  7. Michaelstedman81

    Michaelstedman81 Premium Member

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    Thank you for that answer. It clears things for me quite a bit in regards to what qualifies a group as clandestine. And I am glad that I am not the only one that saw that someone likes to copy/paste things on here. I hope that none of the newer Brothers don't see all that co-masonry friendly stuff that he copied on to here and get confused about things. As soon as I read it, I poked the same holes as you did into it and just came up with the same conclusion that you posted. Hopefully, the newer Brothers will see the rest of the posts on there and not accept the words he posted as truth about the Fraternity. Thank you for answering my questions.
     
  8. Michaelstedman81

    Michaelstedman81 Premium Member

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    I agree with you totally. Yes, some change is good and is needed at times. But when you change the fundamental basis of things, then the original idea or object is no longer the same. To me, that would be "destryoing" the Craft. Just like you, I would like to see some elaboration on who he thinks destroyed what. Your right. Why would anyone press this agenda about women being Freemasons? I mean to be a real Freemason, they are lacking one major requirement and that is to be a man. That is not being sexist at all, but it is being real. If we start allowing women in to adapt to the times, then we have just given away one of the most basic things about our Fraternity.
     
  9. S.Courtemanche

    S.Courtemanche Premium Member

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    Wow, was this really called for? Bashing people for their beliefs, Civil War statements, ignorant and archaic Texans, and things that older masons supposedlydestroyed ...Wow dude seriously... As for the portion you state, "we even have a Black President now!!” Do you not reside in Canada, so that means thathe is not your president, right? Do the math on this one!!!

    Geeksgalore you might want to seek light from your brothers at your lodge, on proper respect and Masonic Edicate, no one is perfect, and I am far from it but this bashing in various threads is pretty childish.

    Steve
     
  10. MikeMay

    MikeMay Premium Member

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    Well, if your lodge is #48 Madoc Marmora Tweed, as you posted, then I must as a brother point out that you're under the Jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge AF&AM of Canada in the Province of Ontario...and yes, they are clandestine. It really wasn't that hard to look up.
     
  11. kwilbourn

    kwilbourn Registered User

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    I have to agree, Brother; we should all take a lesson from this behavior and seek to better ourselves by applying this lesson. If geeksgalore is indeed a Brother Mason, which I would consider impossible to truly verify through this venue, I hope his journey is bright and he finds the peace to better accept opinions that do not coincide with his own. I do not wish to defame another person, nor wish ill upon them, but the behavior that he has exhibited recently has not been in any way indicative what I would consider Masonic behavior.
     
  12. S.Courtemanche

    S.Courtemanche Premium Member

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    Hey brother, will you be at Lodge on Monday? How is your proficiency going?
     
  13. kwilbourn

    kwilbourn Registered User

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    I'll be there Brother, and it is going very well. I PM'ed you with some details.
     
  14. Michaelstedman81

    Michaelstedman81 Premium Member

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    Lol, I wish I could give multiple "Thumbs Up Thanks" to a few of the Brothers' posts on here...lol I can't believe how quickly all that got out of hand. But I am glad to know that the thoughts I had regarding the women freemasonry were correct.

    I do wonder, though. Since we call those women lodges (and co-masonry lodges) "clandestine", do they call us the same? I mean, since we are the "real deal" (at least I believe we are the real deal...lol) and pretty much everything about them was taken (copied or stolen) from our organization and they appearantly want to be like us in every way, would they call us clandestine? Do they possibly think that they are the original real deal and that we took our stuff from thier organization in the past?

    This whole thing with the women freemasons just boggles my mind totally. One thing Geeks said that was true (which I had read just before he posted it) is that some of these women groups DO refer to each other as "brother". I just don't understand why a group of women would call each other "brother". Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to knock these women for trying to be part of something to better themselves and the world, I'm just trying to ask the questions that are coming up in my brain to try and understand why they are going the route they are. Of course, this may be like trying to understand any other thing about women...lol

    Then again, maybe I have the wrong idea of what "recognized" really is and my calling us the "real deal" is all mixed up....
     
  15. Ashlar

    Ashlar Registered User

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    The internet is a wonderful thing is it not ?

    Now , on topic . I do not care if there is co-masonry or all Female Freemasonry . If they are happy doing their own thing , then more power to them , it is a big world out there . What I do not like is having it shoved down my throat or told that I am wrong for not wanting women in my lodge by some opinionated person looking for an argument . I like my all male Freemasonry and would not want it any other way .
     
  16. Beathard

    Beathard Premium Member

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    Remember that clandestine doesn't mean they are wrong or bad. It means that we cannot masonically communicate with them. They can do their thing and we can do ours. We just can't do it together. I can live with that.
     
  17. Michaelstedman81

    Michaelstedman81 Premium Member

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    Good point
     
  18. Bro.BruceBenjamin

    Bro.BruceBenjamin Premium Member

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    A fraternity (Latin frater : "brother") is a brotherhood, though the term sometimes connotes a distinct or formal organization and a secret society. Sororities - An association or a society of women.
     
  19. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    In the context of "mainstream" Freemasonry, the term "recognized" has a fairly specific meaning. Using that definition, no Lodge or Grand Lodge that admits women can be recognized by any mainstream Masonic body. That said, there is nothing in that definition which broadly states anything like, "Women can not be Freemasons". Indeed, the UGLE has flatly stated, "...Freemasonry is not confined to men (even though this Grand Lodge does not itself admit women)". Therefore, it would seem absurd to suggest that any person, regardless of gender, who has undertaken to be initiated in a regular manner, under an obligation such as each of us has taken, is not a "Freemason".

    Consider your answer to the question, "Where were you first prepared to be made a Mason?" Arbitrary distinctions, like gender, sexual orientation, religious persuasion (atheism excepted), or say... skin color, have no bearing on what lies within that first place of preparation. We should be happy, nay, proud to name anyone who has sworn to pursue and uphold Masonic ideals "Brother", for with them we have more in common than any number of inconsequential differences.
     
  20. Beathard

    Beathard Premium Member

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    What is the fourth word after the "by what further right..." question?
     

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