Women In Masonry - Spin-Off

[ARizo1011]

Hmm where are these people from? Because from my knowledge only "co masonry" (which is considered clandestine) and a lodge in England and i THINK one in France (regular lodges) have women.

I was watching a show on freemasonry and there was a woman from England on it and she had a big old square & compass medallion around her neck and was speaking about the craft.



Sent From Bro Carl's Freemasonry Pro App

Yea brother I think I saw the same one on the history channel I'm not to sure but I think It would be funny to have WM as a woman -_-

 

[Roy_]

No need to repeat what I have written elsewhere, but co-Masonry is all over the globe and there are different organisations. The biggest is Le Droit Humain that has existed for over a century and is now active in over 60 countries (including the US) and has tens of thousands of members. In Belgium, Le Droit Humain makes up 30% of all Masons.
As far as I know, there are no regular co-Mason organisation, but how could there when there are Landmarks?

Sidenote, Le Droit Humain started with an atheistic rite and there are also Belgian and French 'Freemasons' without GAOTU, but Le Droit Humain nowadays uses three rites, one of which is atheistic. It is the least used rite. Most Belgian Masonic organisations have no GAOTU either. Only 6,5% of the Belgian Freemasons are regular.

Your truly,

Roy
co-Mason

 

[Rifleman1776]

I did not vote. It is not up to men to decided what women can do. If they want to start something, they usually do and men are helpless to stop it.

 

[admarcus1]

This idea of women calling themselves 'brothers"...........hrumpf!
Cannot accept that under any circumstance.

I think it is odd, but it doesn't bother me. Perhaps they feel that the term "Brother" in a masonic context carries with it meaning that Sister does not. Of course, they wouldn't care what I think, nor should they. I am certain it has meaning for them.

It makes me think of Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan. In that movie, everyone is addressed as either their rank or as "Mister". I had a bit of a crush on Mister Savik (Kirstie Ally) back in the day.

It all seems somewhat arbitrary anyway. In English, we differentiate between male and female siblings, but not cousins. In French, they differentiate between male and female cousins, but with the same root word. In Hebrew, both are gendered, but even brother and sister use the same root (and all words are gendered).

 

[Roy_]

In my lodge we have brothers and sisters, in Le Droit Humain they do that too. It seems to be dependant on the choice that the Grandloge/-Orient made in the early days.

 

[Morris]

The only part that I don't understand is how fraternity can be a sorority. I'm sure it's my own ignorance but I've researched the definitions and the roots of the words which always lead me back to male or female.

In this co-masonry scenario I would read "fraternity" as mixed, either/or and sorority would still be female only. If all that holds true then what would be male only?

I get hung up on words sometimes, haha.

 

[Roy_]

Yea, but not everybody does or did! In my order we use the word "broederschap", "brotherhood"/fraternity just like the regular male lodges do and also "broederketen", "chain of brothers", while "chain of unity" would be more appropriate, but that would sound terrible in Dutch. Actually, almost everything is the same as in the Grand Orient (that is to say, we have different rites, but different organisations develop differently), the only difference being that we do admit women. Perhaps things would have been clearer when 120 years ago organisations that did not live up to the Landmarks had not used the word "Freemasonry", but things are as they are.

So indeed, Freemasonry, making a brotherhood/fraternity of men and women

 

[Rifleman1776]

I would not particpate in anything Masonic of women were included as members. Women have their own organizations, men have theirs. And, there are organizations which are open to both and that is fine. But, viva le difference.

 

[Roy_]

SMIB

 

[admarcus1]

The only part that I don't understand is how fraternity can be a sorority. I'm sure it's my own ignorance but I've researched the definitions and the roots of the words which always lead me back to male or female.

In this co-masonry scenario I would read "fraternity" as mixed, either/or and sorority would still be female only. If all that holds true then what would be male only?

I get hung up on words sometimes, haha.

In many languages, mixed gender plural defaults to the masculine. For example, in Hebrew the word for boys is yeladim, and the word for girls is yeladot. The word for children (both boys and girls) is yeladim. We see it elsewhere in English. Womankind would not include men, but mankind includes women.

I suppose you could call it a siblingority or siblingernity, but u doubt that would catch on.

 

[dfreybur]

It makes me think of Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan. In that movie, everyone is addressed as either their rank or as "Mister".

In Navy boot camp I was taught that Mister worked for any cadet and Sir worked for any officer. At the time Ma'm was preferred but not required for female officers. I don't recall being taught a term for female cadets.

 

[admarcus1]

In Navy boot camp I was taught that Mister worked for any cadet and Sir worked for any officer. At the time Ma'm was preferred but not required for female officers. I don't recall being taught a term for female cadets.

That makes sense in the film. Savik and her fellow crewmen (and women) were cadets. Further exposing myself as a geek, on the first few episodes of Star Trek: Voyager, some crewmembers had some confusion as to whether to address Captain Janeway as sir or ma'am. She accepted both. To be consistent with the films, I think they should have stuck to sir, but they played it for comic relief.

Language is a funny thing. I have many native Chinese speakers where I work, and many of them struggle with our gendered pronouns. They don't have them. My friend Zhaohui mixes up "he" and "she" all the time. Otherwise, he is completely fluent in English. It's one aspect of our language that seems completely unnecessary to him, so it doesn't stick. I have a similar problem with the genders of inanimate objects in Hebrew and French. I have a hard time remembering which nouns are masculine and which are feminine. And it matters. In Hebrew, numbers are different depending on whether the items you are counting are male or female. For example, if you are counting three masculine things, three is shalosh. If they are feminine, three is shloshah. If it is a mixed group of masculine and feminine, you use the masculine form.

I think I have pulled this discussion far enough away from the original topic into the land of linguistics that I will stop imposing my particular fascination with language on everyone.

 

[Morris]

I suppose you could call it a siblingority or siblingernity, but u doubt that would catch on.

Found the word "Homosociality".

 

[coachn]

Masonry has re-enforced for me the understanding that words have general meanings and specific meanings and the context they are used within can and do change their meaning dramatically and sometimes in ways that require a rethinking of many well-entrenched beliefs.

It's also taught me how many men can't comprehend much less accept this.

 

[Morris]

Masonry has re-enforced for me the understanding that words have general meanings and specific meanings and the context they are used within can and do change their meaning dramatically and sometimes in ways that require a rethinking of many well-entrenched beliefs.

It's also taught me how many men can't comprehend much less accept this.

Very true, sort of like "All men are created equal" now means mankind and still not everyone is onboard with that.

Sorry Roy, I may have just derailed your topic.

 

[Roy_]

Don't worry, it wasn't my topic and some interesting thoughts came out of linguistic reasoning, didn't they?

 

[pointwithinacircle2]

Masonry has re-enforced for me the understanding that words have general meanings and specific meanings and the context they are used within can and do change their meaning dramatically and sometimes in ways that require a rethinking of many well-entrenched beliefs.

My desire to truly comprehend the meaning of words began in earnest when I read that Aristotle believed that there were two kinds of "good". "Good is such a simple word" I thought, "how can it mean two things?" His description of the "public good" and the "private good" (well, really an explanation of his description) has taught me to see that the casual use of words is often confusing. Today I often witness two people arguing and think "They aren't even talking about the same thing." Unfortunately these people don't even realize it. They won't take the time to define their terms, that would take all the fun out of the argument.

It's also taught me how many men can't comprehend much less accept this.

I believe that that many in our society don't want the average person to understand this concept. One possible reason is that once you get people engaged in an unwinnable argument they are easier to manipulate. Politicians love this tactic. They get people into an unwinnable argument and then say "Vote for me and I will win that for you"! Masonry is unique in that it teaches men that they should seek the truth for themselves rather than allowing others to define it for them. To attain understanding we encourage the study of words.

 

[coachn]

1. Grammar teaches us the Lexicon and how to use it.
2. Logic teaches us how to Construct Arguments from that Lexicon and how to make those Arguments Strong.
3. Rhetoric teaches us how Lexicon Dramatically Changes its Meaning beyond the Accepted Concrete depending upon 1) how it is Employed and 2) the Mentality, Attitude and Grasp of those who hear it.

BTW - Don't expect any EAs or FCs to have anywhere near the Grasp of Masters.

 

[dfreybur]

I rather like the view that the 7 start out narrowing then end up expanding, like philosophy and science are intended to. For that matter like boot camp is intended to.

Grammar teaches how to organize our words so others will be able to understand us.
Rhetoric teaches how to use our words to convince others.
Logic teaches us how to tell true statements from false statements.
Arithmetic teaches how to achieve precision among true statements.
Geometry teaches us how to expand precise true statements to be able to construct objects from them.
Music teaches us how to influence emotions using scales that have geometric and arithmetic properties.
Astronomy teaches us to stretch our imaginations toward the infinite while still observing the lessons and rules of all the previous arts.

The total is not just that a man's reach should exceed his grasp, but that he should be able to systematically use tools and ideas to project his reach much farther and more powerfully than just dreaming abut the stars.

 

[Glen Cook]

..... The biggest is Le Droit Humain that has existed for over a century and is now active in over 60 countries (including the US) and has tens of thousands of members. In Belgium, Le Droit Humain makes up 30% of all Masons....
....
Only 6,5% of the Belgian Freemasons are regular.

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