R
Ressam
Guest
You are right, sir.
Excuse me.
I said sth. else, not related to "sororities".
I meant more -- about life things.
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Grand Lodge of Georgia Bans Gay Men
- Thread starter Squire Bentley
- Start date
Excuse me.
I said sth. else, not related to "sororities".
I meant more -- about life things.
NY.Light.II
Registered User
1. I think it is completely fair to use mason and Freemason interchangeably. For one thing, this concept is already present in the language informally. Most people, when hearing mason, think of the craft. Further, Masons, in the understanding of builders and personal stone worker, are today relatively few in number. Indeed, Donald Trump was the force behind Trump Tower, but I would hardly consider him an operative mason. Even construction workers do not often work with stone building implements directly. Third, we can take a lesson from grammar here, as auxiliary groups (SR, Shrine, etc) are properly called Masonic bodies, and makes no distinction between Masonic or Freemasonic.
2. In another post on this thread, you cite freemasonry as a theatrical group, with somewhat convoluted secondary clauses. To water-down freemasonry as a theatrical troupe that can only appeal a sub-set "target market" is too simplistic to capture what freemasonry is. I doubt that when HRH Prince Edward, Duke of Kent was initiated, he did so to be a royal patron of a troupe of thespians.
NY.Light.II
Registered User
As I've stated multiple times on this forum, I am not yet a initiated into any fraternal body. I plan to petition once I am permitted to (once I overcome the age requirement).
Man are you in for an awakening!
NY.Light.II
Registered User
How so
Oh, it certainly is completely fair when you're speaking about the craft in general. However, when you getting down and dirty into the Craft mud, you have to have some way of distinguishing between wet dirt and fresh fertilizer. If you wish to keep the fantasy alive, fuzziness is necessary and hence interchangeability is actually preferred. When you want to break through the veil of illusion, differentiation is a must.
Once you become a member of the Society, I am open to help you better understand your perceived convolutions. Or, you can obtain some light upon the subject before hand if you want to understand better what you are getting yourself into.
I see that you believe I have watered it down. I believe you are mistaken. What I have done is characterize the operations of the organization. Once again, you are confusing Freemasonry as an operations with the Masonry it uses to offer Moral guidance through its morality plays.
LOL! Doubt away. He most like was under the same misunderstanding that you appear to be under.
Wait.... you don't know? No one told you what to expect? You're a person of nonage?
Yup, better be ready to brace yourself!
Warrior1256
Site Benefactor
Same here.
I shall be more direct: Perhaps it would be better to wait before giving opinion as to what the Craft is or isn't?
I like that: "versions."
"I can say I dont recognize such individuals as humans but it only involves my opinion"
????
A good laugh is good for health but is not an argument.
I think that FM has not to do with supporters but more with uprightness, sincerity, authenticity, freedom.
I you want to laugh, you must accept 2nd degree example.
And after laghing, I shoud be pleased that you seriously answer to serious question :
"Where do you find sexism in masonic rituals to pretext your female band ?"
And where do you find encouragement to religious devotion ?
Unless the good laugh is directed at what you are saying.
It can be anything that you want it to be... We are all free to make up what makes sense to us most. If these are what you make it to be, God bless you in your choices.
I must?
I have no idea what you are asking.
all over the place.
Unless the good laugh is directed at what you are saying.
It can be anything that you want it to be... We are all free to make up what makes sense to us most. If these are what you make it to be, God bless you in your choices.
I must?
I have no idea what you are asking.
all over the place.
Teasing is one thing, but it does not make argument ! May be no argument ...
Apparently you did not understand the joke .. I will do it more understandable for you :
IF I SHOULD say "I does not consider yu as human, it SHOULD BE just MY opinion"
It is the same with your pretentions !
Apparently you have no argument to justify YOUR BAN of females from your lodges. OK !
idem with religious devotion ! It is limited to affirmation ... OK !
Warrior1256
Site Benefactor
Why would coachn, or any of us, need to "justify" the ban on women. It was this way when the Grand Lodge system was created in 1727 and the vast majority of us like it the way it is. I don't hear anyone laying the claim of sexism on sororities. We are self sufficient and receive no government funds. Therefore, as far as I am concerned, this particular landmark needs no justification.
I think that everything has an explanation in masonery. The fact you like it this way is a bit ... short.
In 1717(not 1727), slavery was in the texts. It has changed, since, No ?
"sororities" is a stange word. Do you mean they are not freemasons, not part of "universal fraternity"?
Women lodges which do not accept men in their meetings are sexist as well. By DEFINITION (discrimination based on sex).
Of course this is your right to state sexism or homophobia or religious sectarism in your constitution !(the courts will decide if you must be condemned for that) But it is the right of anybody to criticize it !
I think(but I see that from Europe, not from Georgia or Tenessee) it a shame for freemasonery all over the world to display this kind of behavior.
Freemasonery is at the origin of Constitution Act and Human Rights. It is its glory, certainely not a competition with the most archaic and egoist religious behaviors.
Sorry to be so direct. But th "f" of Freemasonery means "frankness" too, No ?
Only when you don't take offense...
If it was a joke, I recommend you not quit your day job.
Well, yes, but it speaks to your character and if this was indeed a joke, it is in poor taste, and I would not characterize it as a laughing matter. No amount of characterizing it as a joke will get you out of these holes.
What pretentions?
Have you not been listening? Apparently you did not understand the reason. I will do it more understandable for you :
The Premier Grand Lodge chose to make the organization that they were creating back in circa 1717 a men's only society. Whatever meaning that you have assigned to that creation is of your own choosing, but it is not in line with the intent of the men who created the organization.
Secondly, it is not my ban. It is a social construct of which I have chosen to participate. This social construct has existed for nearly 300 years before I joined. I have no problem with it since I was looking for a male only organization when I found this one.
huh?
The main problem is not "my joke" but YOUR REALITY, the way you treat brethren (male or female or homo).
You apparently did not understand(or not want to consider) the opposite argument !
In 1717, about all organisation were "men only". as in some times "white only", as "no slaves accepted".
And the constitution of Grand Lodge of London was set, based on these society rules of THESE TIMES.
When slavery was bannished in Europe, FM constitutions changed.
Army, police, religion were "male only" for thousands of years too ! And they changed !
I dont argue about your personal prefrences for "male only" ! That's your point.
But about the official statements of your organisation stating sexism and homophobia as moral(sic) values !
Army, police have changed and abandonned that ! And many FM organisations too !
Not the main stream of pretended "regular" GL !
By the way, are you allowed to visit as mason, feminine or mixed FM lodges ... ?
You apparently did not understand(or not want to consider) the opposite argument !
In 1717, about all organisation were "men only". as in some times "white only", as "no slaves accepted".
And the constitution of Grand Lodge of London was set, based on these society rules of THESE TIMES.
When slavery was bannished in Europe, FM constitutions changed.
Army, police, religion were "male only" for thousands of years too ! And they changed !
I dont argue about your personal prefrences for "male only" ! That's your point.
But about the official statements of your organisation stating sexism and homophobia as moral(sic) values !
Army, police have changed and abandonned that ! And many FM organisations too !
Not the main stream of pretended "regular" GL !
By the way, are you allowed to visit as mason, feminine or mixed FM lodges ... ?
NY.Light.II
Registered User
Slight modification. Slavery was never banned in Europe as a whole on a specific date. Slavery was outlawed on a piecemeal, country by country basis, and this happened in different years across different countries.