National Supreme Council A.A.S.R.

Discussion in 'Prince Hall Freemasonry' started by Shahkem, Aug 6, 2013.

  1. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    Please explain what partner you are referring to because now I'm confused??
     
  2. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    If PHA is in amity with GLdF, it can complicate recognition of PHA by CGMNA GLs, as seen in the MN example
     
  3. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    PHA is regular, but may NM Masons attend PHA FL?
     
  4. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    You know ive asked this of our current Grand JW about other PHA Jurisdictions and his answer was the "when in Rome" answer. If we were just visiting FL then itd probably be ok if they let us pass the tyler. But if we were relocating probably not. But if they came to NM we could let them in all day.

    P.s. this is not an official statement from the gl of nm as i hold no office to be able to speak for such...

    Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
     
  5. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    Don't really see how that could complicate things seems more like that would only open the door for other GL's to follow suit but I'm by no means an expert on this matter I will have to look into Minnesota so I can see where your coming from if both GL's are in good standing with their other counterparts I don't see what the problem would be if they are not I see a problem
     
  6. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Previously, eight GLs withdrew/suspended recognition of MN when it recognized GLdF. MN then rescinded recognition of GLdF. When GEKT had its dalliance with another clandestine French group, Great Priory of England gave notice they would consider withdrawing recognition. We look at who you play with.
     
  7. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Many GLs have the When in Rome rule.
     
  8. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    Now I see where you are coming from I thought GLofFL was in amity with the other GL of states well well you learn something new everyday thanks for the lesson Brother Cook
     
  9. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    I'm still trying to get a confirmation on weather or not we recognize the GL of France
     
  10. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    GLoFl is in amity with the other states. It's GLPHA that may have an issue
     
  11. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    The MWUGLofFL is also in amity with all other PHA GL's wither the exception of LA and I believe they are no longer a part of the PHA COGM still listed on the website but if you try to click on them it no longer opens that's where I'm trying to figure out where the problem would be pertaining MWGLofFL and MWUGLofFL other than the dirty little secret that plaques the other southern states that are not in amity with each other
     
  12. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    The problem would be if PHA FL recognizes GLdF as GLdF is not recognized by UGLE or the CGMNA GLs
     
  13. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    Don't know if we do or not still waiting on confirmation on that I have never heard of that until a brother previously mentioned on this tread that he had heard it I will give my deputy a call and find out for sure
     
  14. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    That's not the way blanket recognition normally works. Normally blanket recognition gives recognition to all states that have local recognition.

    http://bessel.org/masrec/phablanket.htm

    Does NM really recognize all PHA jurisdictions in the list here? I would love a reference confirming that!

    http://www.conferenceofgrandmasterspha.org/gjlinks.asp
     
  15. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Im really not sure, I am just going off of what I was told by out JGW a few months back. The question I asked is that since we recognize NMPHA and NMPHA recognizes all PHAGLs what if we were in lodge at a NMPHA had a PHA brother from say Arkansas PHA was there? Or say a CGMNA GL of Arkansas was at our lodge and our local PHA brothers came, That's when he said when in Rome....But he also said that we have a compact with the NM PHA GL and that in that compact we agree to recognize all GLs that they recognize and vice versa.

    Like I said I am not a GL officer or a line officer in my lodge here. As when I move from NM I will more then likely Demit and keep my membership in OR as it is my mother lodge and where my wife and I plan to retire so I haven't really bothered myself the traveling rules of NM as I will most likely travel as an OR mason. I will find out though.
     
  16. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    Just emailed the Grand CCFC for a list of GL's in which we share mutual recognition with
     
  17. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    If PHA FL is in amity with GLdF, it may complicate recognition with any CGMNA GL, including GLFL. We don't like GLdF, and we may not let people play with us if those people play with GLdF. TBMK, there are only three PHA GLs in amity with GLdF, per Ralph McNeal, who is well recognized in the PHA community.

    The racism of some GL's is hardly a secret. The problem is that relations w/ an unrecognized GL is a legitimate reason to deny recognition, as seen with MN and GEKT.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
    mrpierce17 likes this.
  18. PM Kris Jackson

    PM Kris Jackson Registered User

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    No my brother, it's not actually cleared up. But please allow me to explain. They once were all a band of friends, referring to a particular small groups of GMs. GM Slaughter-LA considered GM Vaughn-TN as a mentor of sorts, he even fondly referred to him as "the dean of GMs". It's important to mention that this "small group" were also the top ranking officers of the USC-SJPHA. Well, a few years ago, as a part of a succession plan, discussion began concerning GM Slaughter taking the seat of SGC after SGC Vaughn stepped down since the brother who was #2 was unable to (the reason I forget). In preparation for this transition GM Slaughter (who is a CPA by trade) after hearing rumors amongst the SC, requested an audit of the books for fear that he might inherit a volatile situation. The audit initially found that $1.2 million was unaccounted for, and further investigation raised the total closer to $3 million. Not only feeling betrayed, but also remaining mindful of his duties as a GM he chose to act not only in the best interest of the USC-SJ PHA and it's membership, but also to protect the brothers of his jurisdiction by not exposing our GL to the intense scrutiny that was being felt by the SC from the IRS and the FBI. After the situation was exposed, elections were held, and the brothers involved still opted to keep SGC Vaughn in leadership, GM Slaughter realized the problem went further than SGC Vaughn and the Tech who stole $100,000+ from the USC paypal account. He then removed recognition from the USC-SJ PHA ONLY, and in conjunction with other jurisdictions who felt the same way, decided to start a new USC-SJ (NOT NATIONAL) in Washington D.C. (NOT DETROIT). Then GM Vaughn and the others involved decided to retaliate by removing recognition from LA on the Blue Lodge level, although this issue has nothing to do with the Blue Lodge. The reason they originally gave was, to sum it up, "he was unmasonic because he told on us and brothers don't tell on each other". Well, masonically I must admit that on SOME levels I agree. But I must also add that 1st, I have a little brother and YES brothers DO tell on each other; 2nd what is actually unmasonic is being entrusted with the highest office in a branch of masonry and dishonoring that position by stealing from the brotherhood. The guy who sticks up for the brotherhood and exposes the theft, even at the risk of being ostracized, he is the hero not the villain.

    As far as the Virgin Islands thing, what happened with that was the brothers of the islands had everything the masonically needed to start their own GL. They went to FL for their blessing and assistance, because that's who they were under, only to be basically held hostage. The only reasons I've been able to get from anyone who would actually know is it was because the GM of FL wasn't quite ready to lose the islands for whatever reasons ($$ in my opinion). After GM Slaughter received a request to help them (VI) and decided to oblige, the GM of FL decided to jump on the "no LA" bandwagon. I hope I didn't leave anything out.
     
  19. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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  20. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Starting any new order has that problem. The order has to stay in business a few years to demonstrate it's viable before they start applying for recognition.

    What choices do they have at this point? In the north they could just request affiliation with AASR-SJ or SR-NMJ valleys. In the south that's not an option.

    Blue lodge and Grand Lodge should never have been brought into it, but embezzlement should have never happened either. We've seen similar whizzing matches in Arkansas with the Shrine over less important matters.

    The Virgin Islands charter situation would bring about delays, but that type of issue comes up surprisingly often. A new lodge is chartered by a jurisdiction that is willing. There's a stink. Other jurisdictions that could have said yes in the first place say yes, stink disappears.
     
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