My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Jolly Roger

Isaih

Registered User
yes Bryan, I live in the country.
From your name I summise your heritage is Irish Catholic. And thus you may not be aware of the standard protestant beliefs.
If you read any English history from the turbulent years when we freed ourselves from the pope, you'll see my thoughts are echoed by men of stature and learning.
The mighty men of history, my protestant forefathers.
The pope also claims temporal and spiritual rule over every soul on earth.

I think if you take the time to read up on the period of the 17th and 18th century you'll see this is pretty standard history. And the Bill of Rights should be read in the context of the beliefs at the time.
 

Morris

Premium Member
If I ran the world and let some galoot join me because he was superfly and don't take no shit from his bitches, I wouldn't be running it for too long.

What's the difference between fly and superfly and how do I reach this pinnacle?
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Let's see... first, I never said you cried Illuminati (a long-dead organization with no more connection to the all-seeing eye than the cover of a novel forty-odd years ago), I made a comparison of you and other conspiracy theorists. Second, you're quoting a blog post from three years ago as "proof" of something. That's regurgitation. It's also unacceptable as source material. Nothing you've put forth so far would hold up in a secondary school class, more or less a serious discussion of world politics.
 

Isaih

Registered User
trysquare if I am regurgitating a theory of someone else by coincidence I'm unaware of it.
You might try being specific.
Unless general insults and ad hominem attacks are considered honourable by your lights.
In which case we will never learn from each other.
And further conversation is pointless.


jmorris that's a great question . I suppose there must be a difference between fly and superfly
 
Last edited:

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Isaih, you've taken down your paper, so it's difficult to be more specific. I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm being critical of what I find to be a flawed theory based on suppositions. If you're going to claim a global conspiracy spanning six centuries, you're going to need to cite more references than one history book and a blog. Editors will be far more critical than I have been.
Out.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
yes Bryan, I live in the country.
From your name I summise your heritage is Irish Catholic. And thus you may not be aware of the standard protestant beliefs.
If you read any English history from the turbulent years when we freed ourselves from the pope, you'll see my thoughts are echoed by men of stature and learning.
The mighty men of history, my protestant forefathers.
The pope also claims temporal and spiritual rule over every soul on earth.

I think if you take the time to read up on the period of the 17th and 18th century you'll see this is pretty standard history. And the Bill of Rights should be read in the context of the beliefs at the time.

I am QUITE aware of standard Protestant beliefs. I have attended Methodist and Baptist congregations at various times in my life. To presume from my name that I must be Catholic? What is the origin of this bigotry on your part? I have read a great deal of English history, and it does not support lunatic conspiracy theories like the Pope trying to take over the world. Your smug attempt to "lecture" me only shows off your own bigotry and ignorance. My NAME means that I have no familiarity with Protestantism? Who is such a lunatic and bigot as to believe that?
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
I am QUITE aware of standard Protestant beliefs. I have attended Methodist and Baptist congregations at various times in my life. To presume from my name that I must be Catholic? What is the origin of this bigotry on your part? I have read a great deal of English history, and it does not support lunatic conspiracy theories like the Pope trying to take over the world. Your smug attempt to "lecture" me only shows off your own bigotry and ignorance. My NAME means that I have no familiarity with Protestantism? Who is such a lunatic and bigot as to believe that?
Most excellent point.
 

Vincit qui se vincit

Registered User
There is no connection between the pirate flag called the Jolly Roger (Skull and bones) and Freemasonry!

The first thing that should be pointed out is that the Jolly Roger was not some "universal" flag employed by all pirates they had a variety ensigns but as I'm not a Pirate I won't try to tell you about the I'm sure you can use google and wiki.

However the symbol that some Pirates employed was The skull and crossbones and in the wider context of symbolism this called the "mementomori" which is latin and translates as "reminder that you will die" which is why they have been used for milennia to warn people that a thing (such as the contents of a bottle or a ship full of pirates) may cause them to die quicker if they are not careful.

In Masonic ceremonies the mementomori are used slightly differently and are described as "emblems of mortality" which are used to remind us that everyone sooner or later will die and that we as Masons should be extra careful to live life to the full and ensure that we don't die with regret in our hearts.

Many symbols used in Masonic ceremonies (such as triangles, the Bible, all-seeing eye, mementomori, etc, etc.) have been borrowed from elsewhere and retain their original meanings, which are then weaved into the Masonic story. The ONLY symbols that are specifically Masonic are those that take their rise from the medieval Stone Masons' Trade.

I hope this helps you with your researches.

I am sorry brother, but you are wrong - There IS a connection. Some freemasons were actual pirates FACT, our oaths, grips and symbols are not only just from operative stone mason guilds.
 

Vincit qui se vincit

Registered User
I'm only going to correct your errors about Freemasonry then I've done enough as you are just making up stories.

In 1717 4 Lodges in London started the first Grand Lodge in the world. However Freemasonry is not a religion and it was not practised by anyone other tha Free and Accepted Masons.

No, Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte was NOT a Freemason but his brothers were.

The first grand lodge may have started in England. but it most certainly not the oldest. The oldest Grand Lodge in continuous existence is the Grand Lodge of Ireland - FACT

I also worry brother that you don't actually know what Freemasonry is.. It is most certainly not about conventional stone masonry.

and spouting out quotes from wiki and google about 'memento mori' shows how little you factually know about the subject. You said "The ONLY symbols that are specifically Masonic are those that take their rise from the medieval Stone Masons' Trade." our initiations are not masonic then brother?

I am in Northern Ireland and frequently visit UGLE lodges and higher orders and am most happy to debate with you ;)
 

Mike Martin

Eternal Apprentice
Premium Member
I am sorry brother, but you are wrong - There IS a connection. Some freemasons were actual pirates FACT, our oaths, grips and symbols are not only just from operative stone mason guilds.
Nice assertion and if, as you say, it is a FACT you will be able to supply me with their names and Lodges details won't you?
The first grand lodge may have started in England. but it most certainly not the oldest. The oldest Grand Lodge in continuous existence is the Grand Lodge of Ireland - FACT
NOT a fact at all as supported by the other Home Grand Lodges, including your own (if, as you insinuate, are a member of a Lodge under the Grand Lodge of Ireland). The Premier Grand Lodge of England (1717) did not miraculously disappear in 1813 it merged with the "Antients" Grand Lodge of England (1756) and went forward under the Grand Master of the Premier Grand Lodge at its helm. This is why there are still Lodges from both in operation today.

I also worry brother that you don't actually know what Freemasonry is.. It is most certainly not about conventional stone masonry.
Err, you've lost me there?

and spouting out quotes from wiki and google about 'memento mori' shows how little you factually know about the subject. You said "The ONLY symbols that are specifically Masonic are those that take their rise from the medieval Stone Masons' Trade." our initiations are not masonic then brother?
Ha ha if you've found that explanation on wiki (whatever that is) it means that someone has found it here since I wrote it (four years ago) and copied it. Good luck to them in recognising accurate information.

I am in Northern Ireland and frequently visit UGLE lodges and higher orders and am most happy to debate with you ;)
I tend to avoid people who start off a debate in "attack" rather than "help" mode, so this will be my only answer to you I'm afraid. That is unless you start a topic which interests me, of course.
 
Last edited:

Keith C

Registered User
I will only add to this mess by recalling a part of the Charge when I was Entered.

"He is not to neglect his own necessary avocations for the sake of Freemasonry, nor to involve himself in quarrels with those who through ignorance may speak evilly or despitefully of it."

The ignorance to me is clearly displayed, so I will pass.
 
Top