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Just a few concerns... or curiosities

Derek Barclay

Registered User
Hey guys,

I entertained the idea of petitioning to join the Scottish Rite lodge in Dallas a while back. I eventually lost interest because I felt I could never reconcile my beliefs, or lack thereof, with the rules of the fraternity.

Some things left me genuinely perplexed so I'd like to ask yall about them.

Why is there, seemingly, an emphasis on formal attire and rituals? So often those things seem, to me, to be mistaken for having intrinsic meaning. I was asking the head of a different local lodge about attending a public get-together at a bar, and he informed me the attire was formal. I informed him that I only own jeans and t-shirts, and he said that was fine so long as I did not feel intimidated or offended (can't remember which) by the others being dressed formally. This truly confused me. I thought of it the other way around. I didn't want them to take offense at my lack of "proper dress."

Also, the notion that 'God' is an absolute term is something I can't understand, atleast not yet. Do I believe in a master plot to life, no. But I often find myself feeling/thinking about life, in general, the way many people do with regard to 'God.'

Any thoughts on these ramblings? :)
 

Derek Barclay

Registered User
What do we mean when we say 'power'? I don't believe that mankind is the pinnacle of evolution. I'm not even sure if such a thing could exist. I do genuinely want to discuss these things with yall because they seem to matter. At the very least, they're interesting. Beats talking 'bout football :)
 

Derek Barclay

Registered User
Hey Glen, I appreciate the response. I know yall probably hear people bring this up alot, and I'm not intending to be frivolous in asking it.

Clearly the question 'Do you believe in God?' is more complicated than simply 'Yes' or 'No'.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
Hey Glen, I appreciate the response. I know yall probably hear people bring this up alot, and I'm not intending to be frivolous in asking it.

Clearly the question 'Do you believe in God?' is more complicated than simply 'Yes' or 'No'.
But that isn't the only question there, is it?

It is you who must declare Yes or No, on your honor. No one here can answer it for you. We can't define G-d for you. You must do that.

It may also be that your beliefs aren't sufficiently formed to answer the question. That's ok. When and if they are, you may look at the questions again and see how you would answer honorably.
 

Derek Barclay

Registered User
Sorry, I thought you said question #26. Looking at question #30 I can honestly answer 'no', as far as I can tell.

I don't believe I form my beliefs; rather, my beliefs form me.
 

Derek Barclay

Registered User
If beliefs are out of our control, why require a declaration of certain beliefs in order to fraternize?

In order to simplify, for my benefit, I'd compare it to how I "choose" my friends. If one has a desire to learn and a willingness to admit their ignorance, that seems like a person I'd want to associate with.

I don't know. Please know that I'm not offended in any way for not being "accepted." I'm just trying to figure it out.

I assume the overall purpose of the order is to eliminate unnecessary suffering in the world, though I'm sure I'm mistaken about that as well, and I view divisiveness a key contributor to that.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
If beliefs are out of our control, why require a declaration of certain beliefs in order to fraternize?

In order to simplify, for my benefit, I'd compare it to how I "choose" my friends. If one has a desire to learn and a willingness to admit their ignorance, that seems like a person I'd want to associate with.

I don't know. Please know that I'm not offended in any way for not being "accepted." I'm just trying to figure it out.

I assume the overall purpose of the order is to eliminate unnecessary suffering in the world, though I'm sure I'm mistaken about that as well, and I view divisiveness a key contributor to that.
See the discussion here: http://www.myfreemasonry.com/thread...uire-a-belief-in-god.25316/page-5#post-150230

I had not heard that as a purpose of Freemasonry
 

Derek Barclay

Registered User
What is about being atheistic that deems a man not good, or unable to be bettered? If nothing, why care? Why compartmentalize life?

I may move my questioning to the other thread that Glen shared.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
On dressing up -

My career was reaching the point where I had to do presentations. Some of them in suit and tie. To me it was an advantage in life to become comfortable in formal attire. After enough practice I can now walk around in a tuxedo as naturally and as easily as I see in James Bond movies. If I can handle a tux, I can handle any sort of attire required by any profession. There are jobs that never require dressing up but they are not the professional jobs.

Dressing up is highly correlated with career advancement. No one has to like the fact but it remains a fact. There is a pragmatic advantage to dressing up.

On ritual -

Memorized ritual is the same across generations. An entire body of symbolic meaning can be encoded in such a ritual and stored there. A generation can grow up thinking the group's purpose is social and charitable with almost no members paying attention to the encoded symbolic meaning but it remains there intact. Then a new generation can study the ritual and there it is to be found. Exactly this has happened at least once with Masonic ritual.

On requiring a belief in a supreme being -

A friend told me he did not believe in religions but he was interested in petitioning a lodge. We had lunch for a year discussing the issue. He did believe in a supreme being but he had read too much history of abuse by humans in charge of religious institutions to participate. Once he understood that we don't require participation in a religious institution he petitioned. In the years since he became a Mason he became more generous in his approach to institutions and is now okay with them. Not sure if this is similar to your situation.

In the end it's required because we require it. We need enough in common to be able to start building ourselves into a family. A man of faith can chose to have faith in us and so we can have faith in him. Having that faith is needed for it to end up mutual.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
...Clearly the question 'Do you believe in God?' is more complicated than simply 'Yes' or 'No'.
Clearly it is for you. For most though, it is not complicated at all.

Furthermore, if you were sincerely contemplating joining the SR, you would have already known from the petition and before you posted here that you had to be a Blue Lodge member first.

You're trying to involve us in a conversation that is obviously premature.

So, what's your game Derek.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
...I don't believe I form my beliefs; rather, my beliefs form me.
Personal Responsibility and accountability Derek. You must believe in free-will for any of this to work OR be understood. Otherwise, how would you convince others that it was actually you that was making your choices and decisions of your OWN FREE-WILL AND ACCORD? That's how it works! (or doesn't...)
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
What is about being atheistic that deems a man not good, or unable to be bettered? If nothing, why care? Why compartmentalize life?
Moot point. It's neither the argument nor the issue.

The requirements for joining are the requirements for joining. Either choose or claim that you have something else choose for you because you are unable to do so for yourself.
 
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