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Recently raised but have questions

R

Ressam

Guest
have taught them that God and science are enemies.

Scientists are materialist. They just don't believe that -- "soul is existing".
Actually, the issue is very simple:
Spirituality & materalism are not Oppositions.
Spirituality is just -- The Continuation of Materia. More Perfect Occurence. Another Universe Law.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
I know that masonry does not care what religion you are and allows you to believe whatever you want.

Right. That should be the end of the discussion. We require a belief in a supreme being. We do NOT impose a definition of what that means. We tell a story out of the Old Testament. We do NOT require that our members be Jewish. End.

However, it seems to me that Mason's believe that all religions worship the same God

So why are you making this random sounding stuff up, knowing that we are forbidden from discussing religion in our meetings? Lodge is supposed to be a sanctuary from this sort of divisive topic.

and this is a belief that I simply cannot accept

If you want to make stuff and use it as an excuse to demit, go right ahead. I'm not going to debate stuff that's made up about us. You're imposing a definition, which we don't do.

You knew before joining that we have members of every religion you have ever heard of and many you haven't. You knew before joining that when we perform our degrees we adopted you into our family and you adopted us into your family knowing full well that about our membership. Now you're making stuff up after the fact? Pass.
 

MarkR

Premium Member
Of course, jurisdiction differ on these things, but nowhere in mine is it taught that we all worship "the same God." Freemasonry here takes no position on that at all. What is required is that we all accept a creator god, a "Grand Architect," and how you envision that creator and how you worship is entirely between you and the deity.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Right. That should be the end of the discussion. We require a belief in a supreme being. We do NOT impose a definition of what that means. We tell a story out of the Old Testament. We do NOT require that our members be Jewish. End.



So why are you making this random sounding stuff up, knowing that we are forbidden from discussing religion in our meetings? Lodge is supposed to be a sanctuary from this sort of divisive topic.



If you want to make stuff and use it as an excuse to demit, go right ahead. I'm not going to debate stuff that's made up about us. You're imposing a definition, which we don't do.

You knew before joining that we have members of every religion you have ever heard of and many you haven't. You knew before joining that when we perform our degrees we adopted you into our family and you adopted us into your family knowing full well that about our membership. Now you're making stuff up after the fact? Pass.


Based on some rituals, I can easily see how a Brother could come to such conclusions, and after discussion and though, he could easily come to a different one consistent with what is basically being said in this thread... i'm sympathetic because I've examined the same question but came to a conclusion that there is no group worship going on in a lodge.. each man being left to his own belief. I can worship in a car, doesn't mean a Ford (Holden !!*) is a Church...

*It's a make of an Australian Car... or it used to be...
 

Bloke

Premium Member
I was thinking Craft when I made the Statement... but understand what you are saying...
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
Scientists are materialist. They just don't believe that -- "soul is existing".
Actually, the issue is very simple:
Spirituality & materalism are not Oppositions.
Spirituality is just -- The Continuation of Materia. More Perfect Occurence. Another Universe Law.
My son is a neuroscientist. He is also a dedicated Christian
 

Donald R. Hufham

Registered User
Brother Paul, The Tenets of a Masons Profession , Brotherly Love, Relief And Truth. By the Exercise of these tenets We Become Just And Upright Masons. By this Practice We As A Whole Will make This World A Better Place. We Are Not Practicing Religion, But Practicing Morality . By Practicing Morality Your Tenets As A Christian Are Being FulFilled With Honor. Read your Bahnson. Learn The Lectures With Heart And You Will Better Understand Masonry.
Brotherly Love , Relief And Truth.


Fraternally,
Donald R. Hufham, M,CL
Atkinson, Lodge # 612
Atkinson, NC.
 
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coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
i was recently raised but have some questions that are making me feel a little uncomfortable most of which resolves around religion.

Congratulations!

I know that masonry does not care what religion you are and allows you to believe whatever you want.

"Allow" is not something the society has control over. Freemasonry encourages you to practice your belief. That is all. There is no "Faith Police" overseeing religious practice.

However, it seems to me that Mason's believe that all religions worship the same God and this is a belief that I simply cannot accept as a Christian.

Although it may seem that way to you, members believe what they want to believe about other members; just as you have done here... along with your intolerance about your assumptions.

This has been weighing heavily on me o the point of questioning if I should retract my membership from my lodge. I have family asking me if Jesus would have been a mason? Sounds crazy, I know, but it does make a point.

Yes. It does indeed sound crazy. You've imagined an intolerant situation, based upon unconfirmed assumptions and are ready to flush it all away based upon unfounded conclusions.

Any insight brother Mason's can provide will be appreciated.

Please see last comment.

Thanks for the insight. Like you say, just about every Christian point of view is negative.

Yet, there are quite a few that you're not being pummeled by that are quite positive. Perhaps you're simply hanging with negative people who claim to be Christians, but truly are not Christ-like in their hearts.

Let me cite an example: Jesus Heals a Centurion’s Servant

5 Now when Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, pleading with Him, 6 saying, “Lord, my servant is lying at home paralyzed, dreadfully tormented.”
7 And Jesus said to him, “I will come and heal him.”
8 The centurion answered and said, “Lord, I am not worthy that You should come under my roof. But only speak a word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I also am a man under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes; and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.
10 When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, “Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! 11 And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.

This is what Jesus did in similar situation when confronted with a man who believed differently. He PRAISED him and put him forth as a good EXAMPLE. He was more concerned that a man had faith than what faith the man had.

I would really like to meet a pastor or something that is a mason so I could pick their brain.

Ya got one. Start picking.

I guess I'm worried about getting to vested making friends and forming bonds with my new brothers. If I turn around feeling it's not for me, it will put me in a bad position.

I suggest you be more worried about those who would cause division between you and good men. They are not after your best interests.

As a Christian I of course do believe in a single God, but do not believe all religions worship the same God.

This is your personal view. Everyone has his own. Even Jesus accepted, supported and encouraged those who worshipped differently, as long as they had Faith!

I do respect all other religions, just do not believe that they all have the same idea in who our creator is.

So What! If you're looking to hang with those who have exactly your view, you're going to find the world a very lonely isolated place.

Or instance if someone was to tell me God looks like an elephant or something, I couldn't assume it's the same... I just have a hard time generalizing all religions into one.

And no one within the society OR the society in general is asking you to do this. This is something that you have assumed, latched on to and have run into the ground.

Belief in God is the ONLY religious requirement to join. Your religious views are not in question! Yet, you are making every effort to question those of others. That is NOT what our membership focuses upon, AT ALL!

I'm really not trying to get into a debate, just wanting to know if freemasonry teaches that everyone's God is the same.

This is a religious view. Freemasonry does not teach religious views. Your quest is focused upon a dry well.

...if everyone's God was the same, then there would be no reason for me to believe that Jesus is my savior since another religion doesn't believe in him... I am ok with everyone praying together and for your prayer to be to whoever your God is. I just want to know if masonry believes everyone's God is in fact the same God.

Freemasonry leaves belief in God in the hands of each member. You're assuming a lot about Freemasonry that has nothing to do with Freemasonry.

I'm not concerned if grand lodge allows different beliefs or religions.

Good!

Just asking if they assert that whatever your religion is, you are all worshiping the same God.

Freemasonry asserts nothing in this respect. Almost every jurisdiction, like Jesus, is more concerned that you have a belief in God (as you understand God), than what faith you actually have and practice.

Also, Freemasons don't "worship God". They believe in God. Worship is left to the individual member to do in his own way and on his own time.

Basically, what I am getting at is that for me to feel comfortable in being a member, I would have to hear that masonry requires a belief in A God,

Freemasonry requires a belief in God. There! Feel better! :D

...but not require that we believe everyone's idea of who God is is the same.

Freemasonry has no such requirement.

Of course I believe there is only one God that created everyone and everything, but someone else may have a completely different version of God.

It is not "may"; even Christians do battle to the death over whose version is correct.

Like I said I really don't care if brothers believe in another God, just don't want to be told that everyone's version is ultimately the same

Actually, it does come across that you do care and that you do care a lot.

I am new to masonry and hope I'm not ruffling any feathers.

It's gonna take a lot more than what you offered here to ruffle.

I love the friends I'm making and enjoy the rituals and lodge, it's just the religious aspects that give me questions.

As they should! Kudos for bringing them up.

I not only want to figure it out for my own well being, but also so I can defend the craft and its ideas if need be. I know I should be asking the brothers in my own lodge about this stuff and I probably will. I just don't want them to think I may leave after spending so much time teaching me the work. Just trying to find clarity I guess.

Are you clearer now? ;)
 

BodhiD

Registered User
As a Christian I of course do believe in a single God, but do not believe all religions worship the same God. I do respect all other religions, just do not believe that they all have the same idea in who our creator is. Or instance if someone was to tell me God looks like an elephant or something, I couldn't assume it's the same... I just have a hard time generalizing all religions into one.

If you believe in a single God, I'm curious who/what you think "other religions" worship? You should perhaps follow this line to its logical conclusion.

I also wonder if you think the Deity is overly concerned with what OUR idea(s) of him/her/it is?

If you're hoping to hear "sure, in Masonry, all religions are equal, but *some* are more equal than others" /wink wink... Sorry, but I hope you don't find what you're looking for, and you shouldn't in Freemasonry.

Just food for thought, I hope.
 

flipster

Registered User
Brother John, a well thought out and timely response. I am not making light of bro. Paul's questions, but I don't think Jesus would have joined my bowling team, our local community orchestra, our historical society. You get my drift. The disciples gave up all, and joined Jesus. It's a tough question, and each man needs to answer the questions themselves. And beware of busy bodies from all walks of life who may not like the things we do. By the way, John, I knew your name was familiar. I went hunting and found it on Ira Beck Lodge. Small world. I hope we can meet some time.
 
R

Ressam

Guest
but I don't think Jesus would have joined my bowling team, our local community orchestra, our historical society.

Of course, I respect everyone Faith! It's obvious necessity for everyone. Respecting everyone's Religion!
But, IMHO(maybe I'm mistaken), many Christians have wrong understanding of -- "Why(For what purpose) Jesus'd come?"
They think that -- Jesus came to -- die by takin' their sins, atoning by death.
It's wrong. Jesus came for -- bringing "Good News"(εὐαγγέλιον) from God, Who is Loving everyone, equally.
He came for showing -- True Path. But, unfortunately, "Mission failed".
Just look at the sky, and see how many stars there.
Do you think that -- all these Billion Stars, Galaxies, were being created "by accident", for humans,
so that -- our purpose is finally -- to die, dissapear(to Paradise forever) one day? It's not serious.
 

flipster

Registered User
Ressam, the question I addressed was one put to John by his acquaintances: would Jesus join lodge. The question could also then apply to my bowling team etc. Your comment, "Mission failed" bewilders me. I won't try to change your opinion. It's just I have never heard that said about Jesus. Oh, well. Istanbul may see things differently than in this neck of the woods.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Respectfully; I think we' ve had a really good discussion on this, let's be careful not to let this get into an argument about an individual's faith or statements made about faith with which we disagree with the statements made, let's not get personal. Let's not proselytize.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Brother John, a well thought out and timely response. I am not making light of bro. Paul's questions, but I don't think Jesus would have joined my bowling team, our local community orchestra, our historical society. You get my drift.

No. Would you please go into more direct detail please?

The disciples gave up all, and joined Jesus.

Only if you believe they each made a decision. If they made a choice, then there was nothing that they gave up. They merely chose to do and have something different.

It's a tough question, and each man needs to answer the questions themselves.

What is this question you allude to?

And beware of busy bodies from all walks of life who may not like the things we do.

Sage overall advice for sure!

By the way, John, I knew your name was familiar. I went hunting and found it on Ira Beck Lodge. Small world. I hope we can meet some time.

Me too! I'll be at Clinton Lodge #175 on April 23 doing a Building Better Builders Workshop. Can you make it?
 
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