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Who are these Fellows?

88DAM88

Registered User
In the Entered Apprentice degree "liturgy" and proficiency we find the word fellows " . . . among Brothers and Fellows . . ," " . . . as all Brothers and Fellows . . . " Does Fellows in these passages refer to Fellow Crafts? Or to, perhaps, Odd Fellows? If Fellow Crafts, does this imply that an Entered Apprentice is not a "Brother" until he is a Master Mason? Curious about the evolution and meaning of this point in the work.
 
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Elexir

Registered User
"One of the Early degrees"?

Most likley not Odd Fellows as they didnt apear intill 1730. And honestly has gone their own way.

Remember that the third degree is the youngest of the three.
 

88DAM88

Registered User
Edited to clarify my inquiry: In the Entered Apprentice degree "liturgy" and proficiency we find the word fellows " . . . among Brothers and Fellows . . ," " . . . as all Brothers and Fellows . . . " Does Fellows in these passages refer to Fellow Crafts? Or to, perhaps, Odd Fellows? If Fellow Crafts, does this imply that an Entered Apprentice is not a "Brother" until he is a Master Mason? Curious about the evolution and meaning of this point in the work.
 

Elexir

Registered User
Depending on age we have to take out MM as this degree is the youngest and for some time fellowcraft was the highest degree. So its most likley refering to that.

Im not sure about your hangup with Odd Fellows as they are younger then modern Freemasonry (around 1720 the third degree was added and Odd Fellows didnt apear until 1730)
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Edited to clarify my inquiry: In the Entered Apprentice degree "liturgy" and proficiency we find the word fellows " . . . among Brothers and Fellows . . ," " . . . as all Brothers and Fellows . . . " Does Fellows in these passages refer to Fellow Crafts? Or to, perhaps, Odd Fellows? If Fellow Crafts, does this imply that an Entered Apprentice is not a "Brother" until he is a Master Mason? Curious about the evolution and meaning of this point in the work.

Originally, Brothers were full fledged members, and more specifically: EAs. This was all that was required to join the roll playing society when the PGL first franchised all this stuff we do.

Fellows were the Masters of the Lodge, and they were the FCs. It was the highest title and "the Master's part" was what a member had to experience to become a FC.

This all changed soon after the PGL turned the task of making FCs over to the lodges and the MM was offered as an option soon thereafter.

No, "fellows" here is NOT an Odd Fellows thingy.

see: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-what-is-highest-degree.html
and: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-about-highest-degree-post.html

for more information on this and other related stuff.
 

88DAM88

Registered User
Depending on age we have to take out MM as this degree is the youngest and for some time fellowcraft was the highest degree. So its most likley refering to that.

Im not sure about your hangup with Odd Fellows as they are younger then modern Freemasonry (around 1720 the third degree was added and Odd Fellows didnt apear until 1730)
Just a question and a possible postualtion. No "hangup." Pure inquiry, Brother, Odd Fellows included as nearly facetious humor, truth be told. Breathe.
Originally, Brothers were full fledged members, and more specifically: EAs. This was all that was required to join the roll playing society when the PGL first franchised all this stuff we do.

Fellows were the Masters of the Lodge, and they were the FCs. It was the highest title and "the Master's part" was what a member had to experience to become a FC.

This all changed soon after the PGL turned the task of making FCs over to the lodges and the MM was offered as an option soon thereafter.

No, "fellows" here is NOT an Odd Fellows thingy.

see: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-what-is-highest-degree.html
and: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-about-highest-degree-post.html

for more information on this and other related stuff.
Originally, Brothers were full fledged members, and more specifically: EAs. This was all that was required to join the roll playing society when the PGL first franchised all this stuff we do.

Fellows were the Masters of the Lodge, and they were the FCs. It was the highest title and "the Master's part" was what a member had to experience to become a FC.

This all changed soon after the PGL turned the task of making FCs over to the lodges and the MM was offered as an option soon thereafter.

No, "fellows" here is NOT an Odd Fellows thingy.

see: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-what-is-highest-degree.html
and: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-about-highest-degree-post.html

for more information on this and other related stuff.
Excellent. Thank you, Brother. Very enlightening.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
In the Entered Apprentice degree "liturgy" and proficiency we find the word fellows " . . . among Brothers and Fellows . . ," " . . . as all Brothers and Fellows . . . " Does Fellows in these passages refer to Fellow Crafts? Or to, perhaps, Odd Fellows? If Fellow Crafts, does this imply that an Entered Apprentice is not a "Brother" until he is a Master Mason? Curious about the evolution and meaning of this point in the work.

I seem to have the impression your not a Freemason. Either way "liturgy" is not a accurate word to use in respect to Freemasonry. That said, it was a good question.
 

jermy Bell

Registered User
I have been a Mm for around 3 years, and have wondered about the fellows part as well, and had asked who the fellows were, and I know 7 grand lectures, and they couldn't answer that question either.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
st franchised all this stuff we do.

Fellows were the Masters of the Lodge, and they were the FCs. It was the highest title and "the Master's part" was what a member had to experience to become a FC.

This all changed soon after the PGL turned the task of making FCs over to the lodges and the MM was offered as an option soon thereafter.

No, "fellows" here is NOT an Odd Fellows thingy.

see: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-what-is-highest-degree.html
and: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2017/03/a-brother-asks-about-highest-degree-post.html

for more information on this and other related stuff.
Great info! Thanks coachn.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
My opinion is that it is refering to initiates who are not yet brothers.

Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app

That might be it. It really depends on how it's used. I assume Coach has done a fair bit of study on this, but I've only considered it in the context of our ritual and it's didn't really matter because "brethren and fellows" is only symbolic in a play acting troop and hence we should attach too much importance on it :p

But seriously, it appears in our ritual once (that I've noticed) in the 3rd talking about "correcting" others and it quite an interesting paragraph. It also starts "In the character of a master mason.."and i seriously wonder if that means when acting as a MM or being a MM or if it's about other people. Like a lot of things, it might have layers. Then of course there's "brethren and fellows" and if fellows are a subgroup of the first or something different, including FC's or just fellow humans.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
That might be it. It really depends on how it's used. I assume Coach has done a fair bit of study on this, but I've only considered it in the context of our ritual and it's didn't really matter because "brethren and fellows" is only symbolic in a play acting troop and hence we should attach too much importance on it :p

But seriously, it appears in our ritual once (that I've noticed) in the 3rd talking about "correcting" others and it quite an interesting paragraph. It also starts "In the character of a master mason.."and i seriously wonder if that means when acting as a MM or being a MM or if it's about other people. Like a lot of things, it might have layers. Then of course there's "brethren and fellows" and if fellows are a subgroup of the first or something different, including FC's or just fellow humans.
If you read "The Craft Unmasked!", the evidence (that made it into the book) is pretty clear
 
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