Warrior1256
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Agreed!If my understanding of KT law is correct (noting I’m a Past Chair of G&A of a grand commandery), then I’m not really troubled by the GEKT position.
Agreed!If my understanding of KT law is correct (noting I’m a Past Chair of G&A of a grand commandery), then I’m not really troubled by the GEKT position.
But as I understand the PGMGEKT statement, the only issue at a KT trial is if there was an expulsion. There is no other defense. Thus, KT does recognise the GL sovereignty. It is simply a matter of proving the GL action occurred. I view it akin to the civil process of registering a foreign judgement in some civil jurisdictions: the issue is the validity of the foreign judgment, not the underlying facts.
If my understanding of KT law is correct (noting I’m a Past Chair of G&A of a grand commandery), then I’m not really troubled by the GEKT position.
To borrow from Pogo: We have met the enemy, and he is us.What I expected to happen -
GL announces expulsion. KT announces suspension until the copy of the paperwork arrives. Certified copy of paperwork arrives. KT announces expulsion.
I am puzzled why the suspension step did not happen. I think (hope?) pulling recognition was a direct result of this expected step being skipped.
I am also puzzled why the current MW GM was so impatient. Patience is the first lesson taught to us before we ever set foot in lodge.
I am further puzzled why a man so heavily vetted by our fraternity would engage in a personal feud of this sort. While there must be more to that story, I have gratitude that I am not aware of the rest of that story. It must be the sort of story that once I hear it I would want to undergo several types of ritual cleansing to try to get away from its stink.
I am further puzzled why a man so heavily vetted by our fraternity would engage in a personal feud of this sort. While there must be more to that story, I have gratitude that I am not aware of the rest of that story. It must be the sort of story that once I hear it I would want to undergo several types of ritual cleansing to try to get away from its stink.
Hopefully.What I expected to happen -
GL announces expulsion. KT announces suspension until the copy of the paperwork arrives. Certified copy of paperwork arrives. KT announces expulsion.
While there must be more to that story, I have gratitude that I am not aware of the rest of that story. It must be the sort of story that once I hear it I would want to undergo several types of ritual cleansing to try to get away from its stink.
Lol!To borrow from Pogo: We have met the enemy, and he is us.
I believe that this, or a similar situation, occurred between the Grand Lodge of my home state, WV, and the Grand Lodge of Ohio.I know of a situation where a man had plural memberships in two different states; he did something that was completely legal but against the Masonic code in State 1; he got expelled; State 2 said that's ignorant and didn't expel him because it was perfectly legal and not against their state code; a big peeing contest ensued.
This is the problem we have created, or at least inherited, with our system. Everyone wants to be sovereign, but everyone wants to stick their thumb in the other guy's pie.
I know of a situation where a man had plural memberships in two different states; he did something that was completely legal but against the Masonic code in State 1; he got expelled; State 2 said that's ignorant and didn't expel him because it was perfectly legal and not against their state code; a big peeing contest ensued. When the heads of bodies want to measure whose is bigger, it's the membership that suffers because the rank and file doesn't know what to do.
I know of a situation where a man had plural memberships in two different states; he did something that was completely legal but against the Masonic code in State 1; he got expelled; State 2 said that's ignorant and didn't expel him because it was perfectly legal and not against their state code; a big peeing contest ensued. When the heads of bodies want to measure whose is bigger, it's the membership that suffers because the rank and file doesn't know what to do.
Interesting!In the above case if a PA MM did something against the rules of his "secondary" GL, he automatically violated the rules of the GLof PA, regardless if that action would not have resulted in discipline in PA.
Update from the Grand Commander of Louisiana:
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=542999436155319&id=420217708433493&set=pcb.542999452821984&source=48&refid=13&__tn__=+>
Not impressed. Now it's just turning into a pissing match between 3-4 guys that are fighting via letters in public...
Perhaps, but I'd say he's got just as much of a right as anyone to defend himself, and it seems like there's even more light being shed on this issue.
Obviously, we have to take a grain of salt with everything, but between MEPGM Vaught trying to throw people under the bus, his refusal to remove an expelled Mason from office (regardless of expelling him from KT or not), this additional letter, and from talking to folks that were present at the Triennial, I can't say that GEKT looks particularly good right now.
I fully agree with his right to defend himself. But at some point someone has to be the bigger man, and stop fighting via correspondence. I think this continuations makes them both look stupid and unmasonic, no matter who started it. The case seems to no longer be about what or who is right, but instead just pointing fingers and assigning blame.
.....and so it continues.
To be fair, he's jumping in fresh, not continuing. Maybe that's just as bad, but now that we have a statement from the MWGM, the MEPGM, and the REGC, the story is becoming more and more clear. To me, it seems increasingly more likely that the MEPGM is in the wrong here.
Agreed!!!That doesn't stop others involved from being also wrong to various degrees. At vary best all involved are setting poor examples.
Today in "which Grand Lodge goes nuclear this month," the GM of Louisiana withdrew recognition of the Grand Encampment of Knights Templar. KTs are only allowed to continue Templary if they are operating outside of the GEKT.
https://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com/2018/08/gl-of-louisiana-withdraws-recognition.html?m=1
TL;DR: a Past Grand Master of ̶G̶E̶K̶T̶ the GLoLA (and PGC of the GCKTLA) got expelled from the GLoLA, GEKT did not expel him and recognized him as a ̶M̶E̶G̶M̶ Departmental Commander. GLoLA went nuclear.