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Hermeticism in early Freemasonry

Bloke

Premium Member
(I don't have anything meaningful to add, but just chiming in to say I found this thread interesting to read and I hope those more conversant with this material continue the conversation)
 

Roy_

Registered User
(I don't have anything meaningful to add, but just chiming in to say I found this thread interesting to read and I hope those more conversant with this material continue the conversation)

Just shoot. I'm quite a bookworm and I'm recently much looking into the (possible) esoteric sources of Freemasonry. Giving a descent reply takes time that I don't always have and I'm seldom able to shake something from my sleeve (as we say here) so I need to get some sources.

I was looking into the history of the AASR this week and I have an open question. Let me make a new post so we perhaps have another interesting subject.
 

William Beals

Registered User
"And after this flood many years, as the chronicle telleth, these 2 pillars were found, and as the Pilicronicon saith, that a great clerk that [was] called Pythagoras found that one, and Hermes, the philosopher, found that other, and they taught forth the sciences that they found therein written."

This is an personal interest of mine. I am really interested in how exactly No...I mean, Pythagoras and Hermes came "into possession" of these Pillars and the "inside" knowledge that was passed down. Any recommendations as to how I can find more on the watchers or the times leading up to the flood. I would surely appreciate any suggestions.
 

Luigi Visentin

Registered User
Many versions of the Legend of the Craft tells that both pillars were found by Hermes only. Likely there is an overlap of traditions. Josephus said that both the pillers were still visible in Syria. There is a tradition, instead, that says that Hermes wrote all his knowledge on two pillars and Pythagoras and Plato studied them and form them they developed their philosophical teachings. Generally many traditions tells that knowledge was reported on pillars to be transmitted to the next generations and is pretty long to cite them all. A couple are Manetho and Olympiodorus of Thebes.

In case of the Legend I think that the concept is similar, that is that the Masonic Hermes simply recovered the old teachings after the Masonic Flood.

Just for fun: this passage has not further indications therefore I have also a "fanciful" theory that the marble pillar is the Traian Column cited in the manuscripts of the "Spencer" family like the Inigo Jones MS.
 

William Beals

Registered User
I am under the impression that after moses and the ten commandments, Adam's prophesy of the destruction of earth was upon them. The ten commandments were etched onto both pillars, one of marble if im not mistaken to prevent its destruction if God were to destroy the earth with fire or some other type of material to prevent it from being damaged buy the flood. Noah(pythagoras) was who was according to the bible was the one who found the tablets after the watchers warned him of the flood. Now here is where I have been stumped. Upon some papers that i stumbled across, it appeared that God had planned on destroying all of humanity and that is was the watchers only that spared Noah and his family and bestowed upon them the 7 liberal sciences. Was God that displeased in humanity that he wanted total annihilation of humanity? Was it only because of these fallen angels(watchers) that we even exist. And does God even know that we still exist? Bahahaha, scratch that last.
 

William Beals

Registered User
This is exactly where I have been hoping freemasonry could assist me. To possible explanations of our not so humble beginnings. Perhaps one day.... Is it ok that I speak on these matters and its timing on a regular basis under this thread? Peaked though it may be, my curiosity will ask for permission
 

William Beals

Registered User
I understand 100% that much Masonic information is indeed exactly that and that it should be treasured as such. I would do my best as to press my knowledgable gain yet while being all too cautious around the borders of which I should temp to cross while also being ever so respectful of the fraternity and its members solid obligation.
 

William Beals

Registered User
I just got finished writing a 3 page inquiry with lots of quotes then I deleted it all.......that 4th( if I am right) pillar that I was told of , which led me to the learning of Pythagoras (and those of similar nature) told me to shut up. No path I feel is safe for me to follow alone. This newly found guidance through silence has put so much noise in my mind. Who has gave me that which I have sought and left me alone and why?
 

William Beals

Registered User
Freemasonry has the same problem. I see regularly new initiates who were attracted to the essence of Freemasonry,
The enticements, the oohs and the ahhs. I understand. The bells and the whistles are the beginning of what such individuals seek when they have an assumption of what they believe Freemasonry to be or what they may gain. I seek nor have I sought from moment one, an earthly gain or treasure that I haven't possessed already(I have two sons) I have been told what freemasonry was and is and that which I am to do. Or perhaps I have cracked my very last eggshell and am off my ******* rocker! A straight answer for once would be so nice, but ......
 

Bloke

Premium Member
....Modern Freemasonry contains traces of Egyptian, Sumerian and Hindu mysteries modified by Jewish and Christian custodians. Identifying and learning from those traces requires spiritual practices that develop the inner senses and wide reading of ancient accounts - preferably not translated by religionists.

What a wonderful statement.. I like it :)
Hindu is interesting though... how so ?
 

William Beals

Registered User
But who would want to know such an ancient history of Freemasonry?

Ha! Whom indeed! Due to the advice of lodge members i've came to the conclusion that I may not be ready and have removed about 80 masonic books and plenty other close in nature from my computer. Five years.....FIVE YEARS I have tried to read and become a learned mason on my own and Ive only came to the conclusion....."welp, those Mason guys are right, Ill never figure this stuff out without being a mason." Never once have I claimed to be a mason, ive encountered a few fools that I know not to be masons that have claimed such to impress others and oh how it made me think smaller of them. Back to my point Ive kept one book on my computer now for study and it is the KJV and the book of Enoch. Am I to understand that I shouldnt venture any further into the mysteries of the Bible or for me has it became a Masonic FUBU(For Us By Us) book? As I feel that I was once blind, am I now to look away? Working as best as i can with the time i have with the link you share. I can not thank you enough for even speaking to me on these matters.
 

William Beals

Registered User
I actually downloaded Sitchin's collection minus 2 of the books. I think I got them from my Academia.edu account or from Yale's online library (after watching one of his lectures on youtube(
) .....well ya know, I never got around to reading them, as my collection was beginning to overwhelm me with answers that I felt I was not ready for. I've never been one for mathematics and have never even attempted geometry until I came across Euclid's 47th and my friend when I tell you there was no help for me when it comes to math, I assure you the very last word that I wanted to say was eureka! My lastest grab by the horns was "The Golden Ass" I came across it during what I believe was a Masonic lecture. It was linked to me through a conversation I was having with someone who I believed to be a lodge member. Oh and the explanations and the way he(the lecturer) explained what was the million eyes of sorts(not remembering and wish I could find that video to finish it but eh, what ya gonna do right?) was some of the most captivating words that I have ever heard and if I hadn't been up all day and night reading Things that I shouldn't have been then I might had been able to finish the video! I am not a very well learned man and with a 9th grade education, I would say that I've came a long way. Freemasonry and it's history has been the only passion I've found since high school and if they would have taught it faithfully in school, I probably would have been valedictorian. I will poke around a bit into Sichin and take into account what I can. Thank you again for the other link to Fomenko. Oh and i just check and i still had this bookmarked http://93.174.95.27/search.php?req=...open=0&view=simple&res=25&phrase=1&column=def
 

Mike Martin

Eternal Apprentice
Premium Member
Supposedly, Hermeticism in the form of the Corpus Hermeticum came to Europe for the first time in 1471 via Marsilio Ficino. However, the Matthew Cooke Manuscript (dated 1450) talks about Hermes the philosopher finding one of the antediluvian pillars in its discussions on the history of Freemasonry.

I'm no expert but it didn't take me long to find the reason why "Hermes the Philosopher" predates "Hermeticism".

Quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermes

"Beginning around the turn of the 1st century AD, a process began by which, in certain traditions, Hermes became euhemerised – that is, interpreted as a historical, mortal figure who had become divine or elevated to godlike status in legend. Numerous books of wisdom and magic (including astrology, theosophy, and alchemy) were attributed to this "historical" Hermes, usually identified in his Alexandrian form of Hermes Trismegistus. As a collection, these works are referred to as the Hermetica.[56]

Though worship of Hermes had been almost fully suppressed in the Roman Empire following the Christian persecution of paganism under Theodosius I in the 4th century AD, Hermes continued to be recognized as a mystical or prophetic figure, though a mortal one, by Christian scholars. Early medieval Christians such as Augustine believed that a euhemerised Hermes Trismegistus had been an ancient pagan prophet who predicted the emergence of Christianity in his writings.[57][58] Some Christian philosophers in the medieval and Renaissance periods believed in the existence of a "prisca theologia", a single thread of true theology that could be found uniting all religions.[59][60] Christian philosophers used Hermetic writings and other ancient philosophical literature to support their belief in the prisca theologia, arguing that Hermes Trismegistus was a contemporary of Moses,[61] or that he was the third in a line of important prophets after Enoch and Noah.[62][63]

The 10th century Suda attempted to further Christianize the figure of Hermes, claiming that "He was called Trismegistus on account of his praise of the trinity, saying there is one divine nature in the trinity."[64] " end quote
 

Luigi Visentin

Registered User
The Masonic Hermes has only the attribute "Trimegistus" in common with the Hermes of the esotericism or with hermeticism or whatsoever philosphical and sapiential discipline. It is necessary to explain why he is identified with "Nimrod", but also with the "Great Hermarines", with "Moses" (Briscoe Pamphlet 1724), with "a priest" etc. to understand who he really was. Without this explanation, every discussion about Hermes is surely interesting but has nothing to do with the personage of the Cooke Manuscript and, generally speaking, of the Masonic Legend.
 
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