One Day Classes

[Huw]

Hi Wes.

Do we know that George Washington had to learn Q&A. I know to this day in England they dont.

That's not quite fair, Bro. We do have some Q&A here in England, but it's quite brief. But yes, I understand that over there you have a significantly longer version.

T & F,

Huw

 

[Huw]

A view from England: I don't like the idea of ODCs at all. Freemasonry isn't a bunch of words, it's a transformational experience. I can't see how an ODC could give a Candidate the same sort of experience which the rest of us have had, going through each Degree, thinking about it, letting the lesson sink in a little, wondering about what might come next, and then progressing: the waiting-time between Degrees is an important part of how it works. I can accept that some ODC Candidates can come back afterwards, and see the work done in the traditional manner, and thereby catch up on what they missed out during the ODC ... but if they've got time to do that, then surely they're showing that they would actually have had time to do it the traditional way in the first place? And if they don't come back afterwards, then what the heck was the point of putting them through the ODC at all? In England we've never done a mass ODC (and I doubt that we ever will), and we've very rarely done an all-in-one-day ceremony even for one Candidate at a time (although dispensations have been granted for that in a few special cases - but there's got to be an exceptional reason, it might happen once per decade in the whole country).

Another view from England: I apologise for my fellow English Brother who posted in this thread earlier and became abusive, especially since he had jumped to an incorrect conclusion on the basis of incomplete information.

T & F,

Huw

 

[JEbeling]

Well in Texas the question and answers as we know them today were only adopted in the 30's and 40's ... ! They have been under change by the committee on "Hope and Change" from that time forward... ! up until that time I understand a few sign, few grips.. etc were all that was required...?

 

[Bill Lins]

A view from England: I don't like the idea of ODCs at all. Freemasonry isn't a bunch of words, it's a transformational experience. I can't see how an ODC could give a Candidate the same sort of experience which the rest of us have had, going through each Degree, thinking about it, letting the lesson sink in a little, wondering about what might come next, and then progressing: the waiting-time between Degrees is an important part of how it works. I can accept that some ODC Candidates can come back afterwards, and see the work done in the traditional manner, and thereby catch up on what they missed out during the ODC ... but if they've got time to do that, then surely they're showing that they would actually have had time to do it the traditional way in the first place? And if they don't come back afterwards, then what the heck was the point of putting them through the ODC at all?

I agree entirely. Great post, Huw!

 

[Chuckfw]

I agree 100%. I have known brothers who were disappointed that their proficiency before the lodge was interrupted and the vote was positive before they could finish. The numbers game will make the fraternity weak over a period of time. Just my .02!

 

[S.Courtemanche]

I just turned in my EA proficiency this past Monday 1 1/2 months after my EA ceremony, my FC ceremony will be on the 5th of May (o:

I personally wouldn't want it any other way.

I also worked the Jr Warden role for two other EA ceremonies and three Master of Ceremonies, for three other EA Degrees.

 

[JBD]

I am completely opposed to it - in the Blue, York and SR -

I went through BL fairly quickly, without strict requirements for proficiency and I had to learn it on my own and fast since I travel.

In SR it was 1 day, terminal degrees only - retained 2-3% - again had to (and am continuing) study on my own.

YR - Old school - one degree at a time - GREAT Experience - less "memory" work in YR, but the esoteric meanings are tough to come by.

In the way TQ&A is typically looked upon - it is nothing but memorization. The key to Masonic work is Masonic interaction. I have access to a number of long time Masons - don't put them in the corner, LISTEN - LISTEN CLOSELY - I have learned more about BEING a Mason from those men than all the Q&A, Certificates, Protocols that I have completed and there are several.

The ALL Program - it is NOT outdated- what it is, is poorly presented in most cases - it is not a filli-in, turn in. It never was designed that way - it is a review, mark in pencil and discuss with the old guy who comes in and doesn't do anything any more because he doesn't recognize anything anymore. You cannot get 5 guys who know anything about Masonry at all around a table without at LEAST 2-3 different answers to a lot of the questions.

This site and forum are invaluable for the 21st century Mason - but it is neither more nor less valuable than traditional one on one.
The same is true for multiple day degree work.

I one day Zero to Hero is crazy - this fraternity is not about obtaining degrees - it is not about the"ritual" either - it is about a change.
The change in a man to make a good man better is in companionship, understanding, awareness, study, emulation, example, reflection.

The degree may "Make" or give you the name "Mason" but it is the understanding the Makes A Mason - Making one is easy Making Yourself a Mason is the difficult part.

In TX until you begin to understand the meaning (not the words) of the 2nd section you are not even close to your Masonic train leaving the station -your journey is still stuck at the gate.

NONE of this happens in a one day anything - it doesn't matter what. We are talking CHANGE not titles

OK,did anyone see where Blake put the ladder so I can get down off my soapbox?

 

[jim9361]

I just completed part one of my EA. I will soon turn in my part 2 & 3. I can tell you that each and every time I have sat down with a MM to practice my work I have gotten something out of it. Each session has made the what, how and why's more and more clear just through the memory work. I do not think I could have or will get the same out of a ODC.

 

[Bill Lins]

The ALL Program - it is NOT outdated- what it is, is poorly presented in most cases - it is not a filli-in, turn in. It never was designed that way - it is a review, mark in pencil and discuss with the old guy who comes in and doesn't do anything any more because he doesn't recognize anything anymore. You cannot get 5 guys who know anything about Masonry at all around a table without at LEAST 2-3 different answers to a lot of the questions.

There shouldn't be "2-3 different answers" to the questions in the A.L.L. program. The correct answers are in the resource materials. The problem is that the program hasn't been updated to reflect changes in the GL Law, thus some of the "correct" answers no longer are correct. GL is aware of the problem- it's just a matter of finding time to update the program & finding the money to pay for it.

 

[JBD]

Bill - you and I agree about almost nothing, at least the way I write things, and your responses to my posts. Where I was going is if you rephrase the question or redefine some of the terms to encourage discussion it is possible to come up with more than one answer to the question. It was not designed to be fill-in - the real value I find is in the discussion and interaction between students and mentors.

In any event there is value in the program regardless of the few issues you have to deal with related to changed GL Law.

 

[PeterLT]

I am not a big fan of it at all. Just a cursory read of the GL description of the one-day Masons sounds like they are running a sausage factory. We have one day Brethren in some Canadian jurisdictions although overall it hasn't been well received here. Personally, I think it cheapens the experience and (dare I say) work involved in becoming a Freemason and practicing our gentle craft.

Would you feel confident in a one day plumber? How's about a one day neurosurgeon? Masonry is a lifetime thing, if you don't have time to enter it properly, will you have time to practice it?

My two bits...


Peter

 

[Bill Lins]

Excellent post!