A Brother Asks: Why Is Excluding Women Legitimate?

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by coachn, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Seeking Light

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    A Brother Asks: Is there any legitimate reason why women aren't allowed to be Freemasons, or does it just stem from the acting troupe rules of the 16th century?
    Coach: Before I respond to your question, let me point out the not so obvious.

    Brother: Okay. Go ahead.
    Coach: Females are allowed to be Freemasons; just not “male” Freemasons. And the reason why they are not allowed to be “male” Freemasons is that they are not male.

    Brother: Okay. Yes. I’ve heard of Co-Freemasonry, and women's lodges and the like.
    Coach: Okay, and you believe they are not Freemasonic?

    Brother: I am talking about the rules governing all "regular" lodges.
    Coach: And these female Freemasons and their lodges are Regular my Brother.

    Brother: They can’t be!
    Coach: I disagree. They sure can.

    Brother: Okay, how so?
    Coach: Regularity is set by the governing Grand Lodge of a jurisdiction.

    Brother: Okay...
    Coach: Since these Female centric Lodges are deemed Regular by their Female centric Grand Lodge, they are indeed Regular to it. They are simply not considered Regular to Male centric Freemasonry.

    Brother:
    Well, yes. That's not what I meant.
    Coach: Then what did you mean?

    Brother: I meant to say they're not Recognized Freemasons and Freemasonic Lodges.

    Finalizing the Question

    Coach: Yes. Thanks. They are not Recognized by Male centric Lodges. They are Recognized within their own network of lodges though.
    Brother: Okay, I'm trying to get to a point. I'm having a difficult time finding the right words.

    Coach: Finding the right words is important.
    Brother: Agreed. What do you think I'm trying to ask?

    Coach: I think you're asking the following... Why can't male freemasonry admit and accept females into their organization?
    Brother: Yes. That’s it! That’s the question!

    Coach: Okay. Thanks. I believe you’ll find that every last response that you get from anyone trying to answer this question will be either made up or offered as an excuse. It won't be the obvious one that provides the underlying reason.
    Brother: What’s that obvious reason?

    (Continue reading here: http://buildinghiram.blogspot.com/2018/08/a-brother-asks-why-is-excluding-women.html )
     
  2. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    We are the home of healthy masculinity.
     
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  3. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    A Freemasons' lodge extends from E to W and N to S and from the center of the Earth to the Heavens. It thereby includes women, animals, plants etc.
     
  4. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    To us, UGLE recognition is paramount however to non-Masons it means nothing. A woman asked me if she could be a Mason. I said 'Sure, there are avenues for that but it's considered irregular.' I added 'The United Grand Lodge of England does not recognize them as regular, "legit" Masons'. She said "Who the hell cares what the United Grand Lodge of England thinks?" I thought, as a non-Mason, she's right.
     
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  5. hfmm97

    hfmm97 Premium Member

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  6. hfmm97

    hfmm97 Premium Member

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  7. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    When I'm asked this question I simply say that "The Freemasonry that I belong to is a fraternity". If they ask again I simply repeat the same answer. Works for me.
     
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  8. EddieGee

    EddieGee Registered User

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    Agree with what others have said. Freemasonry is a fraternity. It is a brotherhood. It doesn't "exclude women" in order to be unfair to them, discriminate against them, etc.; rather, its essence is to be a men's organization. To put it another way: the purpose of the American Kennel Club is to promote the proper and humane breeding / raising / training / health of dogs, not to "exclude cats."
     
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  9. hfmm97

    hfmm97 Premium Member

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    Not to be sexist or hypocritical, but I know that there exist organizations whose membership was limited to females for very legitimate historical reasons. Some women who have challenged me as to why women cannot be Masons still do not want men in their organizations...


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  10. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    If we practiced Masonic Science we could use the "working tools" to test for completeness in the lodge.
     
  11. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    But they can be Freemasons, just not in the male organization.
     
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  12. hfmm97

    hfmm97 Premium Member

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    They WANTED to be members of the MALE organization...oh snap I cannot be in the DAR because most of my family (even my European) was here before there was a USA...


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  13. hfmm97

    hfmm97 Premium Member

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    Besides, the only "masonic" lodge that I knew of (because I went to a fund-raiser BBQ and almost joined) was co-ed, did not require a belief in Deity (they took their obligations on a blank book representing the conscience of the brother/sister) they worked in Spanish and were part on an irregular GL in South Texas


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  14. hfmm97

    hfmm97 Premium Member

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    Only "masonic" lodge that I knew of that admitted women in Houston...


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  15. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Very true.
    Also true.
     
  16. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    A little story. We recently buried our beloved JW in his 50's. At the funeral, I watched our WM openly weeping and a PM sitting beside him. Both are in their 50's. The PM sat there holding the WM's hand and comforting him. Not for a moment, but often through the ceremony. Half the men present would have been Brothers and we filled the back two rows. Where else in Western Society other than Freemasonry would it be seen as completely normal and acceptable (and approved) that two grown heterosexual men can sit publicly holding each others hands ? Such is the bond of fraternalism and such is the secure "authentic " character of these two men that the focus was mutual support rather than public (Masonically) profane opinion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  17. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Beautiful gesture!
     
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  18. Bro Book

    Bro Book Registered User

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    Good stuff my Brother

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  19. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    The oldest Masonic depiction I have found is of the founders of China: Fuxi and Nuwa

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    He holds the square and she the compasses. Notice also the sun, moon and stars. Both are doing hand over back and with the feet and knees as best serpents might do. And they are male and female.

    Note also: "The Chinese words for carpenter’s square, ju, and a pair of compasses, gui, together form the expression to establish order. "
    https://www.truthcontrol.com/pictures/origins-masonic-compass-and-square-fu-xi-and-nuwa-and-more

    Perhaps the original Freemasonry involved males and females equally. Is that part of the lost secrets?
     
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  20. hfmm97

    hfmm97 Premium Member

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    john s nagy could it be that all lodges (whether UGLE recognizes them or not) consider themselves regular?


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