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Astronomy or Astrology?

Brent Heilman

Premium Member
I was thinking that the FTL particle actually tuned out to be a no-go. A mistake in measurements or something along those lines I think. They may have discovered the Higgs Boson though. I guess they are still trying to reproduce the results right now or something. I haven't seen a paper on it yet. I will be waiting for it though.

I will have to try to find that book. I can always stand a little more reading.
 

Brent Heilman

Premium Member
That question still troubles me and not only what happens when you turn the lights on, but also how do you get a car to go that fast?
 

widows son

Premium Member
Isn't it when one travels further out in space they are going further back in time? Like a star who's light is millions of light years away and is
Probably long gone, but only now are we receiving the light?
 

Brent Heilman

Premium Member
I think the article is referring to FTL travel. Although time would be affected. To get all sciencey and nerdy here is this to ponder:

Clocks which are far from massive bodies (or at higher gravitational potentials) run faster, and clocks close to massive bodies (or at lower gravitational potentials) run slower. This is because gravitational time dilation is manifested in accelerated frames of reference or, by virtue of the equivalence principle, in the gravitational field of massive objects.
It can also be manifested by any other kind of accelerating reference frame such as an accelerating dragster or space shuttle. Spinning objects such as merry-go-rounds and ferris wheels are subjected to gravitational time dilation as a consequence of centripetal acceleration.
This is supported by the general theory of relativity due to the equivalence principle that states that all accelerated reference frames are physically equivalent to a gravitational field of the same strength. For example, a person standing on the surface of the Earth experiences exactly the same effect as a person standing in a space ship accelerating at 9.8 m/sec2 (that is, generating a force of 9.8 N/kg, equal to the gravitational field strength of Earth at its surface). According to general relativity, inertial mass and gravitational mass are the same. Not all gravitational fields are "curved" or "spherical"; some are flat as in the case of an accelerating dragster or spacecraft. Any kind of g-load contributes to gravitational time dilation.
In an accelerated box, the equation with respect to an arbitrary base observer where T[SUB]d[/SUB]=e[SUP]gh/c[/SUP][SUP](squared)[/SUP] , where
T[SUB]d[/SUB] is the total time dilation at a distant position,
g is the acceleration of the box as measured by the base observer,
h is the "vertical" distance between the observers and
c is the speed of light
When gh is much smaller than c[SUP]2[/SUP] , the linear "weak field" approximation T[SUB]d[/SUB]=1+gh/c[SUP]2 [/SUP]may also be used.
On a rotating disk when the base observer is located at the center of the disk and co-rotating with it (which makes their view of spacetime non-inertial), the equation is T[SUB]d [/SUB]is equal to the square root of 1-r[SUP]2[/SUP]w[SUP]2[/SUP]/c[SUP]2[/SUP] , where
r is the distance from the center of the disk (which is the location of the base observer), and
w is the angular velocity of the disk.
(It is no accident that in an inertial frame of reference this becomes the familiar velocity time dilation (the square root of 1-v[SUP]2[/SUP]/c[SUP]2[/SUP]​) ).

According to General Relativity, gravitational time dilation is copresent with the existence of an accelerated reference frame.


The speed of light in a locale is always equal to c according to the observer who is there. The stationary observer's perspective corresponds to the local proper time. Every infinitesimal region of space time may have its own proper time that corresponds to the gravitational time dilation there, where electromagnetic radiation and matter may be equally affected, since they are made of the same essence* (as shown in many tests involving the famous equation E=mc2). Such regions are significant whether or not they are occupied by an observer. A time delay is measured for signals that bend near the Sun, headed towards Venus, and bounce back to Earth along a more or less similar path. There is no violation of the speed of light in this sense, as long as an observer is forced to observe only the photons which intercept the observing faculties and not the ones that go passing by in the depths of more (or even less) gravitational time dilation.


If a distant observer is able to track the light in a remote, distant locale which intercepts a time dilated observer nearer to a more massive body, he sees that both the distant light and that distant time dilated observer have a slower proper time clock than other light which is coming nearby him, which intercepts him, at c, like all other light he really can observe. When the other, distant light intercepts the distant observer, it will come at c from the distant observer's perspective.

Also you can look up the Hafele-Keating experiment. To see the effects on time by traveling on a commercial airliner.


*http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/blahol.html#c2
 

crono782

Premium Member
It's going back in time in the same sense that cutting into a tree and looking the rings is going back in time I'd say. Considering every time you look up at the stars you are seeing something as it was eons ago, not as it is presently; you time travel with every nighttime stroll, hah. Kinda makes you feel special!
 

Brent Heilman

Premium Member
Isn't it when one travels further out in space they are going further back in time? Like a star who's light is millions of light years away and is
Probably long gone, but only now are we receiving the light?


The reason for that is when referring to light-years they are used as a distance measurement not time. For instance, the Andromeda Galaxy is 2.5 million light-years away so when we look at it today we are seeing it as it was 2.5 million years ago because it has taken that long for the light to traverse across space. Also when you look at the Sun you are seeing it as it was 8 minutes ago. If you want to know what it looks like at this very moment wait 8 minutes and you will see it. If you were in orbit around the Sun you would see it in real time because the light doesn't have to travel as far.
 

Godfrey Daniel

Registered User
Wow.

You need to keep in mind, you're talking to a guy who thought red-shift and blue-shift had something to do with politics.
 

Brent Heilman

Premium Member
Here is Einstein's take on the question:

``If I pursue a beam of light with the velocity c (velocity of light in a vacuum), I should observe such a beam of light as a spatially oscillatory electromagnetic field at rest. However, there seems to be no such thing, whether on the basis of experience or according to Maxwell's equations. From the very beginning it appeared to me intuitively clear that, judged from the standpoint of such an observer, everything would have to happen according to the same laws as for an observer who, relative to the earth, was at rest. For how, otherwise, should the first observer know, i.e., be able to determine, that he is in a state of fast uniform motion? One sees that in this paradox the germ of the special relativity theory is already contained. Today everyone knows, of course, that all attempts to clarify this paradox satisfactorily were condemned to failure as long as the axiom of the absolute character of time, viz., of a simultaneous, unrecognizedly was anchored in the unconscious. Clearly to recognize this axiom and its arbitrary character really implies already the solution to the problem.''
 

Brent Heilman

Premium Member
"Light always goes at the same speed no matter how fast you go. Events that are simultaneous in one reference frame will happen at different times in another that has a velocity relative to the first. Space and time cannot be taken as absolute."

The Einstein quote and this were found here:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/headlights.html

Some good, baffling questions and equally baffling answers can be found there. It is a good resource for some common physics questions.
 
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