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Being Denied Membership at a Church

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
I have never heard anything discouraging from our pastor or other members of the congregation.
Same here. As I have previously stated Free Methodists (my church) is at odds with Masonry but the pastor at my particular church is O.K. with me being a member.
I took a moment to peruse some of the websites and YouTube videos that disparage our fraternity, and I'm not sure whether to laugh or just shake my head in disbelief. The one about taking over the world is a hoot- we can't even decide half the time on what to serve at high twelve time, much less plot world domination;)
Lol...I look up these sites for the entertainment value!
 

rpbrown

Premium Member
It is sad that members of a church or religion are so ill-informed, but a pastor should perform due diligence before condemning any one or anything. To me this is not Christ like.
A few years ago, our church had a few people leave because they didn't want to be involved in a church run by anti-Christs (Masons). 2 board members, 1 associate pastor, and at least 15 members were masons, as well as the senior pastors son being the WM of our lodge at the time. Even though the senior pastor tried to explain that we were not "devil worshipers" or anti Christs" it fell on deaf ears. We lost maybe 10 members because of it.
The next week the message was on God pruning his flock and our church has grown since then.
Now, had our pastor gone the other way and condemned the Masons, I wouldn't be there today.
Those that left, well they are still church hopping because they cant find one that meets their every whim and way of thinking.
 

TexasAggieOfc1273

Registered User
My $0.02:

I’m a member of a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church, and our national leadership is officially hostile towards Masonic membership. I’ve read their reasons, I get where they’re coming from, but I don’t agree with it. I’ve taken the assurance I received from the WM to heart, and have yet to find anything in Masonry that conflicts with my belief in God. There are several things I think the LCMS gets wrong, but of the several denominations I’ve looked at over the years (I was Southern Baptist as a child, and when my parents found religion, it was as Nazarenes (dad) and Methodists (mom) and my grandparents were Catholic and Adventist) the LCMS is the closest to getting it “right” in my opinion.

I don’t advertise my Lodge membership in Nebraska like I did in Texas. It is partly because I’ve yet to affiliate with a Lodge here and partly because while the Lodge was considered a large part of the community in Texas, it’s much quieter here, I presume because of the fact that Lincoln’s two largest religions are Catholic and Missouri Lutherans. In that vein, I don’t advertise, my pastor doesn’t need to know, and I go about my life.

I certainly understand brothers that would change churches based on their unwelcoming stance towards the Craft, but it’s not a decision I would make at this time. If it ever became an issue, I know there are several other LCMS congregations that are a little more “progressive” and depart from official Synodical direction on some issues where I could still worship in my preferred style while maintaining my Lodge membership.


Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry mobile app
 

Elexir

Registered User
It is sad that members of a church or religion are so ill-informed, but a pastor should perform due diligence before condemning any one or anything. To me this is not Christ like.
A few years ago, our church had a few people leave because they didn't want to be involved in a church run by anti-Christs (Masons). 2 board members, 1 associate pastor, and at least 15 members were masons, as well as the senior pastors son being the WM of our lodge at the time. Even though the senior pastor tried to explain that we were not "devil worshipers" or anti Christs" it fell on deaf ears. We lost maybe 10 members because of it.
The next week the message was on God pruning his flock and our church has grown since then.
Now, had our pastor gone the other way and condemned the Masons, I wouldn't be there today.
Those that left, well they are still church hopping because they cant find one that meets their every whim and way of thinking.

Actully they use due dilligence as they in many cases also listens to their churchs stand on diffrent things and freemasonry is one of them.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
It is sad that members of a church or religion are so ill-informed, but a pastor should perform due diligence before condemning any one or anything. To me this is not Christ like.
A few years ago, our church had a few people leave because they didn't want to be involved in a church run by anti-Christs (Masons). 2 board members, 1 associate pastor, and at least 15 members were masons, as well as the senior pastors son being the WM of our lodge at the time. Even though the senior pastor tried to explain that we were not "devil worshipers" or anti Christs" it fell on deaf ears. We lost maybe 10 members because of it.
The next week the message was on God pruning his flock and our church has grown since then.
Now, had our pastor gone the other way and condemned the Masons, I wouldn't be there today.
Those that left, well they are still church hopping because they cant find one that meets their every whim and way of thinking.
If I was ever told that I had to quit Freemasonry or leave the church this would not even be a close call. I would leave the church and find another where I was welcome.
 

Center

Registered User
my 2 cents as well.
Church should be inspired by the gospels and not by encyclicals.

Freemasonry is not a religion, if he denies brotherly love from somebody that tries to be a better man, should at least have a deeper speech with you to confront himself with modesty and his possible lack of understanding of the papal infallibility principles
 
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Elexir

Registered User
my 2 cents as well.
Church should be inspired by the gospels and not by encyclicals.

Freemasonry is not a religion, if he denies brotherly love from somebody that tries to be a better man, should at least have a deeper speech with you to confront himself with modesty and his possible lack of understanding of the papal infallibility principles

What does the pope has to with Lutherans, jehovas witnesses etc?
Its not just RCC that is against freemasonry.
 

Elexir

Registered User
my 2 cents as well.
Church should be inspired by the gospels and not by encyclicals.

Freemasonry is not a religion, if he denies brotherly love from somebody that tries to be a better man, should at least have a deeper speech with you to confront himself with modesty and his possible lack of understanding of the papal infallibility principles

Lets say my local priest objects to me being a freemason, he/she dont even recognise the principle of the papal infallibility since its an Evangelical Lutheran church so the pope is not important.
 

Center

Registered User
What does the pope has to with Lutherans, jehovas witnesses etc?
Its not just RCC that is against freemasonry.
right, just an example, where I live there are only Protestant and Catholic. Christianity is a huge world. Lately I am preferring the reading of the Greek orthodox tradition. The RCC is important to being pointed out, because of the early Christians philosophies is the one that had more success. The one that was against the Cathars, the Manichean, the Gnostics, the one that was at the basis of the middle age scholastic philosophy.
the not fallibility of the pope is important, because of the relationship with the encyclics and declarations. Just to mention the Quaesitum est http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...aith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html
 

Center

Registered User
Lets say my local priest objects to me being a freemason, he/she dont even recognise the principle of the papal infallibility since its an Evangelical Lutheran church so the pope is not important.
OK, sure thing. Lutheranism wanted to reform catholicism. The point is that personally I do not sympathize with a bible centric vision, but is my limit. But please if is possible I would not love to go in a theological discussions, or history of the bible's Luther's canon, is paradoxically against the same Lutheran principle of faith somehow.
 

Elexir

Registered User
right, just an example, where I live there are only Protestant and Catholic. Christianity is a huge world. Lately I am preferring the reading of the Greek orthodox tradition. The RCC is important to being pointed out, because of the early Christians philosophies is the one that had more success. The one that was against the Cathars, the Manichean, the Gnostics, the one that was at the basis of the middle age scholastic philosophy.
the not fallibility of the pope is important, because of the relationship with the encyclics and declarations. Just to mention the Quaesitum est http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...aith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

As an example its actully good that you mention the greek-orthodox church as they are against freemasonry. Was present at ones initiation and he was nervous about the church finding out. Funny enough the bishops of the RCC in Scandinavia looks the other way with the chatolics that join the swedish rite.
 

Elexir

Registered User
OK, sure thing. Lutheranism wanted to reform catholicism. The point is that personally I do not sympathize with a bible centric vision, but is my limit. But please if is possible I would not love to go in a theological discussions, or history of the bible's Luther's canon, is paradoxically against the same Lutheran principle of faith somehow.

I never dicuss politics or deep points regarding theology in masonic forums anyway.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Lets say my local priest objects to me being a freemason, he/she dont even recognise the principle of the papal infallibility since its an Evangelical Lutheran church so the pope is not important.

Each of us gets to decide on our own how much power and authority we will grant either human clergy or human religion in our lives. God comes before lodge. That's not the same as saying human clergy or human religion come before lodge. Unless you decide for yourself that you chose to give human clergy or human religion that much power over you. Your conscience; your decision.

I can say how I would react, but I'm not you. If I say how I would react, how close does that come to discussing sectarian religion? We're not a tiled space so I'm tempted to make a sales pitch for my choice. But how much does that push against my previous statement - Your conscience; your decision.
 

Elexir

Registered User
Each of us gets to decide on our own how much power and authority we will grant either human clergy or human religion in our lives. God comes before lodge. That's not the same as saying human clergy or human religion come before lodge. Unless you decide for yourself that you chose to give human clergy or human religion that much power over you. Your conscience; your decision.

I can say how I would react, but I'm not you. If I say how I would react, how close does that come to discussing sectarian religion? We're not a tiled space so I'm tempted to make a sales pitch for my choice. But how much does that push against my previous statement - Your conscience; your decision.

You turn it into something its not, look in the context wich I wrote it.
I know I dont have problems with my church regarding as they have officialy done an investigation of the rituals and declared the swedish rite to be alright for its members and priests to belong to.
Making your sales pitch would just be a waste of time as 1) Im not american so our church culture might be a bit diffrent. 2) I went through the process of studying a lot about the churches that exist in my area and 3) I am most in tune with the theology and its ideals.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Hello Brothers,

So there was something interesting happened last night and I'm wondering if it has happened to any of you. So my family and I attend a baptist church that we have really loved going to and will still continue to go to. But anyway we talked to the pastor last night about joining the church because we have been attending for almost a year now and feel right at home going there. So we were everything was going good and then he mentioned how he noticed my Masonic ring and said that I can't be a member of the church if I am a Mason because of the theology of Masonry with saying higher up in Masonry that they believe that every god is the same. But anyway with keeping brotherly love as a priority. I'm wondering if any other brothers have ran into a similar issue where they have wanted to join a church and told that they aren't allowed to join a specific church or organization because they are a member.

Sorry to hear you have experienced this discrimination Brother.
 

EddieGee

Registered User
I am very interested in this thread as I am a committed Christian and active Freemason.

Those "Christians" who hate Masonry usually have two major objections:

1. Because Masonry accepts men of all faiths, it is "indifferentist," i.e. it teaches that all religions are equally good and it doesn't matter which one you espouse. (Not true of course. Masonry does not say that all belief systems are true, which would be absurd. Rather, it refrains from passing judgment on their relative merits, leaving that to the individual Brother. It does require belief in a Supreme Being, and mutual respect and tolerance among those with different beliefs about Him.)

2. "Masonic theology" is incompatible with Christian theology (or the "Masonic God" is not the Christian God).

Of course there is a huge non sequitur in all of this: How can Masonry have #2 - its own theology - which would indeed make it a religion unto itself, and still be #1, an interfaith brotherhood? Wouldn't it have to force Christians, Jews, Muslims, and others to renounce their respective faiths and convert to the worship of the "Masonic God" as defined by "Masonic theology"? Then religious tolerance, which indeed is a Masonic principle, would go out the window.

Beyond this, there seem to be zillions of sites on the Net that pretend to objectively examine the question "Can a Christian be a Mason?" (or a Mason be a Christian). This too is idiotic since there is a simple answer: there are already hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Christian Masons in the world. They have even set up their own organizations, among them the York Rite and Swedish Rite. Asking whether a Christian can be a Mason is like asking whether a woman can be a fighter pilot: if you really want to know, don't sit at your computer and spew ignorant nonsense; rather, look around and see if they exist. Yes and yes. Case closed.

However - and this is the crux of the matter - the people who are trying to hound Masons out of the church can't be reasoned with. Logic didn't get them into their anti-Masonic hatred and it won't get them out. But that doesn't make them any less toxic; in fact, it makes them more so. I have not made my Masonic membership public knowledge at my church for fear that an anti-Mason might stir up animosity against me. I'm not sure if this is being diplomatic or just cowardly. I don't want to go to another church, I love the one I'm in and have good relationships there. I am sure most people, even those who don't like Masonry, would see me as the individual I am rather than as a cartoon-character villain, but it only takes one person spreading hatred and suspicion to cause a lot of heartache.

In any event I am always interested in what others have experienced.
 
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