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Can a woman be a Freemason?

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coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
If a woman asked me about joining the craft. I would tell her to look into the Eastern Star. I dont see whats wrong with that?
Yes. I get it. You do not see what's wrong with what you are stating. And that is the problem. You have not addressed her question but rather, you have by your reaction made effort to impose your world view upon what you believe she should accept rather than encourage her and direct her to get what she truly wants. Interesting.
 

bupton52

Moderator
Premium Member
If a woman asked me about joining the craft. I would tell her to look into the Eastern Star. I dont see whats wrong with that?


That is typically the same path that I follow. I wouldn't intentionally send someone down a path of practicing irregular or clandestine masonry just for the sake of helping them feel good about what they desire to do. At this point, at least in the United States, there are organizations for a woman to get a "masonic experience", for lack of a better term.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
The problem with the OES path is that they generally need a Masonic connection. Unlike a man seeking the Craft, a woman can't come in off the street and petition OES.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Quite clearly you are familiar at density.
Yes, I come across dense people quite often, hence my ability to recognize them when I encounter them.
You refer to Male Craft Orders (whatever the heck that is), ...
Good! An educational moment: They are those Freemasonic Orders that limit there membership to Males only. I belong to one that is recognized by UGLE. You might be familiar with it. It's the GL of Florida. What you might refer to as mainstream or State Masonry.
...but anything else is clandestine.
Only to those who do not recognize them.
... I have never heard of a Female Craft Order before reading this thread.
Good! Then you can no longer claim to not know about their existence into the future and hopefully you shall refer those who would benefit accordingly.
Freemasonry is a FRATERNAL organization.
Only the one that you and I belong to. There are others that exist that are not defined by your narrow definition.
The world doesn't have to be an all inclusive place where everyone holds hands and sings songs.
You're dismissing the issue. You're deviating from the path. Your tactic is not working.
There are dozens of women-only organizations men can't join.
Yes! And a few of them are FREEMASONIC. If you asked to join, they would direct you toward a Male Craft Order. They know how important the principle are, even to males.
As already noted, if a lady was interested in something Masonic, I'd refer her to the OES.
You are changing her wording. She was not interesting in "something masonic". You are perhaps incapable of hearing her. Fortunately, there are others who can.
Your assertion that groups that allow women are regular in their own right is ridiculous.
Only to you my Brother. I'm okay with it though. Your ridicule doesn't do anything but confirm specific things about your character.
Sorry, but they don't get to decide that.
Actually, they do decide that. Just not for us. Which is the way that regularity works. It is decided by the Order itself as they judge other orders.
It would be no different than if I declared myself a regular citizen of Albania, the Albanian government saying "No, you're not," and me saying "Yeah, I think I am because I want to be and say I am."
It's clear by your insufficient example that you truly do not know how it works. You are correct on one issue to which you allude in your example: Governments govern their own boundaries, and this applies to organizations. Regularity can only be judge in relation to the organization judging. Hence an outsider cannot judge another to be regular in any way shape or form other than I relation to themselves. It's strictly an internal measure.
If your group can't trace its lineage back to 1717, then you have arrogated your claim to Freemasonry.
But only as your organization judges regularity. Others have different measurements, untethered by you preconceived notions.
 

bupton52

Moderator
Premium Member
The problem with the OES path is that they generally need a Masonic connection. Unlike a man seeking the Craft, a woman can't come in off the street and petition OES.

In some jurisdictions, the masonic connection has been lifted. I would have to assume that, at some point, the GC would have died if that hadn't happened.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
In some jurisdictions, the masonic connection has been lifted. I would have to assume that, at some point, the GC would have died if that hadn't happened.
It STILL would not answer the question posed.
 

Companion Joe

Premium Member
Yes, I come across dense people quite often, hence my ability to recognize them when I encounter them.

Good! An educational moment: They are those Freemasonic Orders that limit there membership to Males only. I belong to one that is recognized by UGLE. You might be familiar with it. It's the GL of Florida. What you might refer to as mainstream or State Masonry.

Only to those who do not recognize them.

Good! Then you can no longer claim to not know about their existence into the future and hopefully you shall refer those who would benefit accordingly.

Only the one that you and I belong to. There are others that exist that are not defined by your narrow definition.

You're dismissing the issue. You're deviating from the path. Your tactic is not working.

Yes! And a few of them are FREEMASONIC. If you asked to join, they would direct you toward a Male Craft Order. They know how important the principle are, even to males.

You are changing her wording. She was not interesting in "something masonic". You are perhaps incapable of hearing her. Fortunately, there are others who can.

Only to you my Brother. I'm okay with it though. Your ridicule doesn't do anything but confirm specific things about your character.

Actually, they do decide that. Just not for us. Which is the way that regularity works. It is decided by the Order itself as they judge other orders.

It's clear by your insufficient example that you truly do not know how it works. You are correct on one issue to which you allude in your example: Governments govern their own boundaries, and this applies to organizations. Regularity can only be judge in relation to the organization judging. Hence an outsider cannot judge another to be regular in any way shape or form other than I relation to themselves. It's strictly an internal measure.

But only as your organization judges regularity. Others have different measurements, untethered by you preconceived notions.

Then by your measure, I can print up some "Joe's Dollars" and go shopping at Walmart.

Cashier: "I'm sorry sir, that's not regular money. We can't accept it. It isn't guaranteed by a dedicated line."
Me: "Sure you can. I deem it to be regular. The government disagrees, but I don't like its stance, so I'm going to say this is real."
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Then by your measure, I can print up some "Joe's Dollars" and go shopping at Walmart.

Cashier: "I'm sorry sir, that's not regular money. We can't accept it. It isn't guaranteed by a dedicated line."
Me: "Sure you can. I deem it to be regular. The government disagrees, but I don't like its stance, so I'm going to say this is real."
I see now by your contribution that you have used a flawed argument technique to make a point.

Along with that technique you have put forth the point that you don't want to seriously continue this discourse.

I accept your proposal to end it. Thank you for acting as a catalyst for those who have followed this thread and want to know their options rather than blindly accepting inapplicable dogma.
 

Companion Joe

Premium Member
OK. Bye.

But I fail to see why an analogy that calls to task your claim that just because someone wants something to be so, even though it flies in the face of established lineage, it is.

Here is another one:

Let's say I go buy a gray and red uniform, declare myself to be a branch of the Salvation Army, go ringing a bell outside of stores at Christmas, and accept money from people. If the real Salvation Army shows up, do I get to say, "It's OK, I declare myself to be the Salvation Army," or do you thing they'd have something (legitimate grounds) to say about it?
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
OK. Bye.

But I fail to see why an analogy that calls to task your claim that just because someone wants something to be so, even though it flies in the face of established lineage, it is.
Yes Brother. You fail to see and furthermore cannot see what is hidden in plain sight. You have admitted that you were ignorant as to there being female Freemasonic Organizations until this thread and that you admittedly responded to her question in ignorance. Once you were shown the Light and errors of your ways, you dogmatically insist that your original response was the most correct and dismissed the legitimacy of what is clearly a legitimate path option for her, saying that the only legitimate path is to accept that she could never be a Freemason and should accepted OES as a substitute and put away any thoughts of becoming a Freemason.

WHY not continue? I turn the question back around. What would be the benefit in continuing discourse with you when your mind is steadfast in it's preconceived notions? Your cup is too full to accept anything more. There is clearly nothing that could be tendered that would fit your well-entrenched view.

Furthermore, your examples cry of desperation. Female Craft Orders do not claim to be a branch of any Male Craft Organization. Neither do they want to be accepted by Male Craft Organizations. Once again, you speak in ignorance and do so admittedly. Seek Light my Brother. You'll be better informed for your efforts.
 
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