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Can a woman be a Freemason?

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Roy_

Registered User
Arizo said:
I understand that's how it goes in elsewhere . But in my jurisdiction no female will pass brother tiler to enter lodge when open...
Like I said, it's the same over here. No regular lodge accepts visitations from mixed lodges (we do the other way around), but there are irregular male lodges who are less strict, but I have not yet seen that in practice.

Ah, the eternal discussion :D
 

Mike Martin

Eternal Apprentice
Premium Member
This is a bit of a mantra here! But for your information, however in some countries in Europe mixed and male Freemasonry are on good terms, very good even at times, mixed and female Freemasonry are also here never regular and there is no country where official visitations take place between regular and mixed lodges. Yet, there is more to choose than an UGLE-oriented lodge. In fact, in some countries there are more irregular Masons than regular.

I have heard this particular line a few times from members under the British Federation of LDH and I think you maybe have taken it all a bit at face value and getting yourself a bit confused.

I have been told several times that UGLE Masons frequented LDH meetings but no one was ever actually able to identify one of these men and nowadays I am convinced that it is just an urban legend that the old Co-Masons tell the new ones.

The men-only Grand Lodges in Europe that have interaction with Co-Masonry are those that are either irregular or unrecognised or both.
 

Roy_

Registered User
Mike, we're saying the same. There's no official visitations between Grand Orient of the Netherlands Freemasons and us co-Masons. (I know for a fact that there are who visit us unofficially, but that is not important.) Further there are countries with good relations (and even visitations?) between irregular male-Masons and co-Masons, but I have no idea who that works with women who want to visit. I suppose they are no welcome in male-only lodges.

Anyway, in the short time I have been here, most questions about women or mixed are answered with "clandestine". I know they are, and I don't argue, but I want to let people who ask about these subjects know that there are more options than regular Freemasonry.
 

Levelhead

Premium Member
Well then another forum would be appropriate.

The last i checked this forum is called
"My FREEMasonry".
 

Roy_

Registered User
Levelhead said:
Well then another forum would be appropriate.
The last i checked this forum is called
"My FREEMasonry".
Thank you for your hospitality.

It is highly offtopic in this thread, but one reason to become an irregular (Free)Mason could be that you're a woman, right? Another that you have a woman that wants to join too (my reason). Yet another that you consciously or unconsiously joined a lodge of an order that is not recognised by UGLE. The chance for that is big in Belgium or France, since the largest number of lodges are irregular. Perhaps the Masonic way of working appeals to somebody who also sees the value of the womens perspective.

The rest is just a play of words. Most orders call themselves Freemasons, also women and mixed orders and members say they are Freemason. For the 'outside world' Freemasonry is one organisation (/current/whatever), so people looking for it might come here and get bombarded with the "clandestine" mantra. Since I am frequently told that I am welcome here, why would I not be allowed to answer a woman inquiring that there are options for her too? Irregular, certainly, but once she knows this, she can make up her mind, not?
 

Levelhead

Premium Member
Dialogue concerning what is clandestine or irregular is quite a bit more than a mantra. In fact, using the word "mantra" is rather interesting word play. The outer world does consider Masonry to be one organization; however, we know that one can find a counterfeit alternative for everything in the world of true value. And so it is with Masonry. There are regular Lodges, all of which can be traced back to a common and recognized root. My brothers in other states and abroad may work a bit differently that we do in Texas, but there is no doubt about the common lineage. So, when we delineate between regular Masonry and any other alternative, we do not intend to be unfriendly to you or anyone else. We do however intend to protect the genuine article so much as we are able.

After all is said and done, if one still wishes to join an irregular or a clandestine lodge after knowing better, or even to remain in one after learning the difference, that is a matter of free choice. I do not believe any of us have any real problem with that. Just do not expect us to stop differentiating between regular and irregular anymore than we differentiate between gold and lead.
Yes!
 

Roy_

Registered User
Dalinkou said:
Just do not expect us to stop differentiating between regular and irregular anymore than we differentiate between gold and lead.
Indeed, you should not!
Just a little sidenote though. When a woman asks about Freemasonry there is no reason to differentiate "gold and lead", she can only inquire about "lead". Instead of answering the first question of an honoustly inquiring woman with "clandestine!", the reply could also be: "However we do not regard the organisations as regular Freemasonry, there are other kinds of organisation you could be interested in." Or something similar. At least be helpfull instead or scaring a searching person away with disapproval. The inquiring person (whether female or male) might not be aware of the 'two kinds'. Perhaps the fact that there is regular and irregular Freemasonry is a lesson that we need to teach the outside world in the first place.

Dalinkou said:
After all is said and done, if one still wishes to join an irregular or a clandestine lodge after knowing better, or even to remain in one after learning the difference, that is a matter of free choice.
That's the spirit.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Good God My Brothers! When any Female is attracted enough to what I have done for myself through my Freemasonic Work, why on God's Green Earth would I NOT encourage and support her to do the same for herself and give her good orderly direction to a Female Craft Lodge that would be very appropriate for her best interest?!?!?!

Seriously! I won't sit in a Lodge with a female mason because of my Obligation, but that same Obligation points me toward common sense decency, not dogmatic insanity. I'm doing everything RIGHT by trying to make this World a better place through supporting females to do the same. This includes being positive about their Craft possibilities.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
"By being a man ... "
That is for Male Craft Orders only.
Don't ask to join a 300-year-old party then tell the hosts they to change to suit your needs.
I'm never amazed any more as to how dense some Brothers can be.

What you wrote here refers strictly to a Male Craft Order. This sincere female has no interest in changing ANYTHING about any Male Craft Order and yet you assume and act like she is asking to change the whole of Male Craft masonry in her simple and innocent question. Isn't it clear to you that she is not asking anything like that? She only wants to know if a woman can be a Freemason. The answer is "Yes", just not one that is a member of Male Craft Masonry.

Females who ask this simple question are only wanting to know how they can benefit from practicing the same life changing principles that you and I have been offered and espouse. They want to change themselves for the Better. They may have seen the change in a friend, brother, father or uncle who was a Freemason and decided that they want the same changes for themselves. Much like many males do when they seek to join Male Craft Orders.

Why on earth would you NOT refer a female to a Female Craft Order? Don't you WANT a better world? Don't you want to have more females practicing the same principles you espouse? Isn't civility one of the things us guys are supposed to show toward our fellow humans, not just especially Brother Masons? It take so little effort to simply let these females know the options available to them and encourage them to pursue any direction that will make everyone better.

Honestly, some of you guys are so dense. It takes so little to make the world a better place yet you're blowing up the road in front of you believing you're doing the right thing.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I refer them to the Eastern Star.
WOW! Knowing we should treat others how we would want to be treated, you're telling me that you would be totally satisfied being referred to the eastern star when you asked to join Freemasonry. Interesting.
 

Levelhead

Premium Member
If a woman asked me about joining the craft. I would tell her to look into the Eastern Star. I dont see whats wrong with that?
 
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Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
If a woman asked me about joining the craft. I would tell her to look into the Eastern Star. I dont see whats wrong with that?
It's not an answer to her question. She asked about the Craft, not some sidebar that still has a man riding herd on it. There are outlets outside of our Freemasonry for her to explore. What's wrong with pointing her in that direction?
 

Companion Joe

Premium Member
That is for Male Craft Orders only.

I'm never amazed any more as to how dense some Brothers can be.

What you wrote here refers strictly to a Male Craft Order. This sincere female has no interest in changing ANYTHING about any Male Craft Order and yet you assume and act like she is asking to change the whole of Male Craft masonry in her simple and innocent question. Isn't it clear to you that she is not asking anything like that? She only wants to know if a woman can be a Freemason. The answer is "Yes", just not one that is a member of Male Craft Masonry.

Females who ask this simple question are only wanting to know how they can benefit from practicing the same life changing principles that you and I have been offered and espouse. They want to change themselves for the Better. They may have seen the change in a friend, brother, father or uncle who was a Freemason and decided that they want the same changes for themselves. Much like many males do when they seek to join Male Craft Orders.

Why on earth would you NOT refer a female to a Female Craft Order? Don't you WANT a better world? Don't you want to have more females practicing the same principles you espouse? Isn't civility one of the things us guys are supposed to show toward our fellow humans, not just especially Brother Masons? It take so little effort to simply let these females know the options available to them and encourage them to pursue any direction that will make everyone better.

Honestly, some of you guys are so dense. It takes so little to make the world a better place yet you're blowing up the road in front of you believing you're doing the right thing.

Quite clearly you are familiar at density.

You refer to Male Craft Orders (whatever the heck that is), but anything else is clandestine. I have never heard of a Female Craft Order before reading this thread.

Freemasonry is a FRATERNAL organization. The world doesn't have to be an all inclusive place where everyone holds hands and sings songs. There are dozens of women-only organizations men can't join. As already noted, if a lady was interested in something Masonic, I'd refer her to the OES.

Your assertion that groups that allow women are regular in their own right is ridiculous. Sorry, but they don't get to decide that. It would be no different than if I declared myself a regular citizen of Albania, the Albanian government saying "No, you're not," and me saying "Yeah, I think I am because I want to be and say I am."

If your group can't trace its lineage back to 1717, then you have arrogated your claim to Freemasonry.
 
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