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Chamber of Reflection

crono782

Premium Member
I mean if you were to do a CoR and did it completely before ever opening a lodge period, it would be hard to argue that you were tinkering with ritual.


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tomasball

Premium Member
I mean if you were to do a CoR and did it completely before ever opening a lodge period, it would be hard to argue that you were tinkering with ritual.


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The Grand Master disagrees with you. And if you pause and consider what you said, if it's not "ritual", then what is it?
 

crono782

Premium Member
The Grand Master disagrees with you. And if you pause and consider what you said, if it's not "ritual", then what is it?

Oh I'm aware that he does and of course we abide. Same thing that the bible presentation is (in an overly simplified sense): fluff. However, just because its non ritual doesn't mean it can't be made meaningful.


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JJones

Moderator
Oh I'm aware that he does and of course we abide. Same thing that the bible presentation is (in an overly simplified sense): fluff. However, just because its non ritual doesn't mean it can't be made meaningful.


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Agreed. It's just extra and, like the bible presentation, it could be something that's completely optional so long as it follows the procedures set forth by the GL. I see no harm in it and if it turns out to be pointless and ineffective then it'd stop seeing use and die out anyhow.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
The Grand Master disagrees with you.

And what the Grand master says, goes. Plus he gets to decide if his decision goes to vote at GL to get ratified to become permanent. In this case he has not yet put it on the agenda for his year. It's an interesting strategy that kicks the ball forward giving everyone plenty more time to think about it.

And if you pause and consider what you said, if it's not "ritual", then what is it?

You put "ritual" in quotes for a good reason. We are required to perform the entire ritual as it is taught. There are items that are traditional in some lodges not done by others that aren't "ritual" as such. Tuxedo uniform. Freemasonry for Dummies book presentation. You name it.
 

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
And what the Grand master says, goes. Plus he gets to decide if his decision goes to vote at GL to get ratified to become permanent. In this case he has not yet put it on the agenda for his year. It's an interesting strategy that kicks the ball forward giving everyone plenty more time to think about it.
If, as it appears, he only reminded the Brethren of the existing law giving total control of all things ritualistic to the Committee on Work, then there is nothing to be presented or approved @ GL- the law already exists. If some wish to be allowed to have a CoR, they will need to submit a resolution to be considered. As stated earlier, the soonest such could happen would be in December of 2014.
 

catsale

Registered User
Well eventually, Texas GL should vote on this, I suspect that a majority of the votes would support. I remember when I went through my EA degree, while I was impressed with many parts of the degree (lecture, obligation, the way I was duly and truly prepared, and also the fact that everyone memorized their lines)...I was disappointed that the degree was not better, more cool. I was comparing it to my preconceived notions (yes, I had seen CoR mentioned in a book of masonic symbolism that I had purchased so was surprised it did not occur). I was also comparing to my college fraternity initiation which I have to say was actually better in some ways - in college we had a simple CoR (with background music), and then while we lead our candidate around to various adventures on a pathway to initiation, we actually had some taped music in the background or we used sound effects, the candidate would see scenes with background lighting and characters in costume, and we even had pyrotechnic explosions. It was almost like Sottish Rite doing a college fraternity initiation. Now the brothers here could say...well, if you want that, go to the Scottish Rite or York Rite because thats just not blue lodge way of doing things. But my point is that with a few innovations (like a blue lodge CoR) we could remove the need for members to want to move out of blue lodge and into the Scottish Rite. Also, from what I hear, one blue lodge in houston that was doing a CoR for a while (a few years ago) got rave feedback from their candidates that it made the initiation that much more cool for them.
 

chrmc

Registered User
Well eventually, Texas GL should vote on this, I suspect that a majority of the votes would support.

See I think the above is where you may be wrong. Though we are seeing a general trend towards a more formal and traditional form of masonry in many of the urban lodges, I do not think the same winds are blowing in the rural parts of Texas, and most certainly not in Grand Lodge.
I would personally expect a vote on the CoR to fail miserably in GL (sadly) if for no better reason than "it's not the way we've always done it"
 

Roy Vance

Certified
Premium Member
See I think the above is where you may be wrong. Though we are seeing a general trend towards a more formal and traditional form of masonry in many of the urban lodges, I do not think the same winds are blowing in the rural parts of Texas, and most certainly not in Grand Lodge.
I would personally expect a vote on the CoR to fail miserably in GL (sadly) if for no better reason than "it's not the way we've always done it"

Maybe they should read up on the "old" Masonry. In the early days, as I am lead to understand, the CoR was used in the Craft Degrees and not anywhere else, because there was no "anywhere else" to use it. The statement, "it's not the way we've always done it", is something that stems from laziness and forgotten usages. Just Sayin'.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
The wording of anything put to a vote would be key. If you make it look like you're trying to force it down people's throats, they certainly won't vote yes. If you make it an option, then you might get a better response.

I attended an EA Degree at a TO Lodge last night, and I must say that the CoR was done in excellent taste, and that the Candidate was duly impressed. Plus, it was probably one of the most impressive Initiations I have seen.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
I remember when I went through my EA degree, while I was impressed with many parts of the degree (lecture, obligation, the way I was duly and truly prepared, and also the fact that everyone memorized their lines)...I was disappointed that the degree was not better, more cool. I was comparing it to my preconceived notions (yes, I had seen CoR mentioned in a book of masonic symbolism that I had purchased so was surprised it did not occur).

This is a great example of why candidates should be encouraged to go in cold. If you don't trust your friends to take care of you are you actually ready to adopt them as brothers? So don't learn about the content of the degrees in advance. It spoils the emotional impression made during the degree.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
I attended an EA Degree at a TO Lodge last night, and I must say that the CoR was done in excellent taste, and that the Candidate was duly impressed. Plus, it was probably one of the most impressive Initiations I have seen.

A long established tradition that impresses the candidates? Can't have that. Sigh. One of the hardest lessons I've learned is once I went through my degrees, all degrees I go through ever since then are about that candidate not about me. It's about the candidates now. What works for them is for the best of Masonry. This is hardest in my reaction to group degrees needing to favor them because I've seen them work so well but here it is again with CoR.
 

catsale

Registered User
This is a great example of why candidates should be encouraged to go in cold. If you don't trust your friends to take care of you are you actually ready to adopt them as brothers? So don't learn about the content of the degrees in advance. It spoils the emotional impression made during the degree.

True. But I had a book showing pictures and symbols of masonry. Pictures of things like a black and white checkered floor, a sword, some working tools, a stained glass window with a bee hive, pictures of a lodge room in France, a picture of a CoR. Stuff like that. So I was just going off the pictures. Its hard to be 100% in the dark when you join, because you have to have some curiousity just to get you interested.
 

catsale

Registered User
See I think the above is where you may be wrong. Though we are seeing a general trend towards a more formal and traditional form of masonry in many of the urban lodges, I do not think the same winds are blowing in the rural parts of Texas, and most certainly not in Grand Lodge.
I would personally expect a vote on the CoR to fail miserably in GL (sadly) if for no better reason than "it's not the way we've always done it"

Your probably right, rural can be more conservative than urban on some issues, so perhaps allow some lodges the option of being traditional observance lodges and implement the idea.
 

Mac

Moderator
Premium Member
This is the perfect time and place to start drafting an "optional" chamber of reflection proposal for submission in 2014. Who wants to take the lead?

By doing so publicly, we can also generate discussion and let others know that it isn't a scary change, nor is it a mandatory inclusion.

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Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
perhaps allow some lodges the option of being traditional observance lodges and implement the idea.
Last year, San Marcos Lodge successfully proposed the allowance of positioning the Lesser Lights in alternate locations. Their resolution would serve well as a guide for one allowing the use of a CoR.
 

tomasball

Premium Member
I haven't seen anybody post exactly what procedure and wording they want to use in the CoR, which I think would be required for the idea to be considered. And then you would have to explain why that is better than our current ceremony in the preparation room.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
...explain why that is better than our current ceremony in the preparation room.
In the case of Lodges that I have seen using the CoR, nothing is replaced. The preparation, questions, and entrance are all the same. The CoR precedes everything in the Monitor, everything already in place regarding the Degree.
You are correct, however, that someone needs to specifically lay-out the why and wherefore if they are going to bring it before Grand Lodge.
 

tomasball

Premium Member
Are they proposing that the candidate be taken into a CoR, given a ceremony there, then taken to the Preparation Room for the Senior Deacon's charge? Sounds clumsy.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Are they proposing that the candidate be taken into a CoR, given a ceremony there, then taken to the Preparation Room for the Senior Deacon's charge?

Absolutely. No overlap whatsoever with the existing ritual, and optional as well. The only degree I've seen that used it the CoR happened as was complete before we saw the parts of the degree that happened inside the lodge room. We were told about it while we were waiting for the candidate to be prepared.
 
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