Freemasonry membership for Pakistani people

Discussion in 'Frequently Asked Questions' started by Shamil, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. Shaheen Iqbal

    Shaheen Iqbal Registered User

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  2. Mike Martin

    Mike Martin Eternal Apprentice Premium Member

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    You are mistaken on both counts! Neither of those Lodges meet in Pakistan and haven't done so since the 1983 ban on Freemasonry.

    Emerald Isle Lodge No. 19 (GL of Ireland) moved from Pakistan to Dublin in 1992. The Lodge continues to operate from Molesworth Street, Dublin
    Meanwhile Quetta Lodge No. 2333 (GL of England) also moved following the ban and today meets in Freemasons' Hall London.

    So the original answers stand, despite your assertion, that there are no Lodge in Pakistan!
     
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  3. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    I've read of this before... Interestingly, there is atleast 1 Masonic Temple still standing in Vietnam which was seized by the government. I'm pleases to see they are still standing in Pakistan and I have read of these before. It would be a shame if they were knocked over.

    It sounds like they are playing the waiting game... are all the lodges claiming the building under the same GL ? I hope they vest their claim into the warrant and they by Trust, so "heirs" can continue that fight..
     
  4. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    In many cases the masonic buildings in Pakistan are used by the goverment. Wheter the lodges claim them or not they dont belong to any lodge at this time.
     
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  5. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    You sure ? If they held title and they were illegally seized and they were owned by a Warrant under a Trust Deed or under a Trust Deed or some other legal structure, the ownership would often vest in GL or another body if the lodge ceased to operate. The legal battle suggests there is an argument that the current occupiers might not be the legal owners.
     
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  6. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Ahh. The attorneys can make money. Good. Good.
     
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  7. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Not always, this can be a commercial disaster which can see a brother working for free for Freemasons :)
     
  8. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Bad. Bad.
     
  9. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    There there... its only a bad bad dream...
     
  10. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasons_Lodge_Building_(Karachi)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masonic_Temple_(Lahore)

    Around the world there are plenty of examples of laws wich are used to seize goods or properties from criminals and since freemasonry is illegal in Pakistan Im not that sure that they could use that argument at this point.
    If Freemasonry became legal on the other hand. ..
     
  11. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    Even if it were legal, I would never join in Pakistan or somewhere unstable like that.
     
  12. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    I suggest that an active lodge is a force for stability in its area. Where I in an unstable area, I would want to help in such a small way. Different strokes for different folks.
     
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  13. Shaheen Iqbal

    Shaheen Iqbal Registered User

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    Fraternal Greetings Good Brother Mike

    Considering the combative nature of your response I was not even sure if I wanted to respond to you but in the spirit of brotherly love I believe that I must give you the benefit of the doubt; perhaps you never meant to com across as being hostile?

    In my original message I did not suggest that the 2 lodges are still meeting in Pakistan. In my following message I clearly stated that they both were lodges in exile.

    During the period 1975 to 1983 the District Grand Lodge of Pakistan also held two meetings at Tarbela Dam under the banner of Quetta Lodge. During the period Quetta Lodge was stationed in Kundian (Chashma Barrage Colony) and Tarbela Dam The ladies festival celebrated every year in traditional style and was a very popular event with the ladies.

    Unfortunately in the light of the foregoing an informal meeting of the members of the Lodge was held in Islamabad when it was decided that under the prevailing circumstances there was no future for the Lodge in Pakistan and as such it should be moved to London until such time as Freemasonry was again made lawful in Pakistan.

    The District Grand Lodge of Pakistan and the United Grand Lodge of England gave their blessings to the above move and as a result Quetta Lodge held an Emergent Meeting in the Freemasons' Hall, Great Queens Street, London on Saturday 3rd March 1984 and thereafter has been regularly meeting at the above Freemasons Hall four times a year.

    I am a great Proponent and am hopeful that one day freemasonry will one day return to Pakistan but for that we need to the link to Pakistan going. Four of our six Pakistani Freemason Petitioners have already passed away. Once the final two are gone we loose our link to Pakistan and may be forced to throw in the towel. Just like a living entity once a lodge dies it cannot be brought.

    Therefore if the District Grand Lodge of Pakistan is to survive and have a continued link in Pakistan it will need new masons from Pakistan with the ability to frequently travel to UK for meetings.
     
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  14. Shaheen Iqbal

    Shaheen Iqbal Registered User

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    The whole thing was a stitch-up with the intention to seize valuable moveable and immovable Masonic assets. It reminds me of what Phillip the Fair did with the Templar Knights.
     
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  15. Shaheen Iqbal

    Shaheen Iqbal Registered User

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    Well-Put Fremasonary could be a force for stability in Pakistan.
     
  16. Mike Martin

    Mike Martin Eternal Apprentice Premium Member

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    All across Europe during World War 2 and then during the Communist regime in Eastern Europe Freemasonry was banned and deconstructed and when it was no longer banned new Lodges started there naturally, followed quite quickly by new Grand Lodges. If the Pakistani government changes (not a question for Freemasons) its position on Freemasonry it is highly likely that Lodges would spring up there in the same way.

    However, it can hardly be considered either sensible or Masonic to encourage someone who lives in a country where Freemasonry is an illegal pastime to risk imprisonment and possibly worse JUST to keep an old Lodge going.
     
  17. Mike Martin

    Mike Martin Eternal Apprentice Premium Member

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    Sadly there is quite a difference between being a Freemason in the USA or UK and being one in Pakistan.
     
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  18. LK600

    LK600 Premium Member

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    I'm not sure sensible is relevant. Masonic would depend on several factors, the least of which being what constitutes one's country... the people or the government. Other factors might be which government are you loyal to? The one that just got overthrown, or the new one getting ready to be overthrown? No... I won't be holding someone as anti-masonic based on their decision to stand by a countries people and not support (via inaction) a murderous dictatorship. I am NOT talking about Pakistan or any other country specifically. I'm just pointing out the problems with defining something with first world definitions and then holding third world areas to the same.
     
  19. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    The exception to the rule seems to be Cuba. During the Cuban revolution the local lodges opposed the tyranny of the previous dictator and so there are now lodges functioning in Cuba. They stay far away from politics.

    Exactly. I encourage men in those countries to be active in their local politics and mild in their inclinations. Working within the system at levels that do not put them in danger. Some expression like lean in but don't shove, but that's probably too idiomatic to translate into a language other than English.
     
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  20. Mike Martin

    Mike Martin Eternal Apprentice Premium Member

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    I suspect that you may have read the original post and my response too quickly.
     

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