Grand Lodge of Alabama and PH Grand Lodge of Alabama

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by goomba, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    But thats like legalizing weed and then saying you cant sell it, buy it or smoke/use it.... ;)
     
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  2. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    I understand what both GL's of Alabama did but does this affect other GL of states GL's from entering full recognition with the PH GL of Alabama since visitation wasnt included ?

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  3. goomba

    goomba Neo-Antient Site Benefactor

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    I don't know what you heard but brother it takes a big man to do this. Truly Masonry at work!

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  4. goomba

    goomba Neo-Antient Site Benefactor

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    I don't think it does. But that's just my opinion.

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  5. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    It would not be an issue for Utah, as there is a treaty to share the territory.
     
  6. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    So Utah can extend recognition to PHA AL?
     
  7. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    This is all fascinating to me. Say the GL of UT recognized the PHA GL of Alabama and both were there to visit a subordinate lodge in UT with the current resolution both Alabama GLS have drawn up would the Alabama GL of State mason have to leave since they have no visitation PH ?

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  8. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    That is a Q for an AL Mason. UT Masons do not have to withdraw if visiting a recognized jurisdiction and a member of an unrecognized grand Lodge is present. Arkansas has the opposite view, and the Arkansas Mason must withdraw.
     
  9. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Yes, but they [PHA] may place the same Visitation limits as done with their Alabama counterparts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  10. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    Why do you believe they may place the same limitations ? Is this a custom or tradition ?

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  11. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Once recognition is in place, with or without visitation, other GLs are free to recognize, with or without visitation.

    When I arrived in Texas 5 years ago there was local recognition without visitation. I held membership in California and Illinois. I looked up the recognition list in California - MWPHGLofTX was in the list so I was free to visit. I looked up the recognition list in Illinois - Illinois has "blanket" recognition so the day they learned of local recognition they set a welcome-to-recognition letter so I was free to visit. I looked up MWPHGLofTX, found the nearest lodge and showed up.

    Even though the locals couldn't visit according to their rules at that time, I wasn't a local so I could visit. So I did visit.

    A comment on who is or isn't and who can and can't be racist - Be very cautious about making any conclusions. When reading about restrictions like visitation, first find out who requested that restriction. In nearly every case it was the PHA jurisdiction requesting the restriction. Step away from any claim you might have been ready to make. The reality is a two edged sword where leveling claims will certainly cut you at least as bad as it cuts your target.
     
  12. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    Thank you brother and thanks to all other brothers that gave postive feed back. As I am learning, recognition can be a complicated issue.

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  13. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  14. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    Just as an anecdote, I faced an unusual situation for a time. I am a member of both GLoCA and GLoKY. Both have recognition of PHA, but KY at that time did not allow visitation. It dawned on me that if I was sitting in my lodge in CA and a PHA Mason came to visit...what do I do? While realistically KY would never know, and in addition, the restriction on KY visitation was at the behest of MWPHGLoKY, which wouldn't be the visitor, I would likely excuse myself just to avoid any possible issues.
    My point is, things can definitely get confusing.
     
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  15. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    More issues than just recognition. All sorts of details have happened.

    MWPHGLofOK has local recognition but they have not requested recognition from UGLE. They don't say why. Many of us have guesses that have been mentioned in other threads, but anyone not present during their annual/quarterly Communications is just guessing. Not having UGLE recognition means that world wide, their members can't visit. As they sponsor lodges on military bases all over the word it's very puzzling to not want to visit.

    MWPHGLofCA requested that no cross affiliation be included in their agreement. This strange feature has been included in every PHA recognition that GLofCA has offered ever since. MWPHGLofCA are (were?) a single affiliation jurisdiction so anyone petitioning for affiliation would be required to demit anyways. That means the request doesn't actually matter or make sense. We could guess there was a different intent than the actual wording but that's just guessing. I think the intent was to prevent PHA members from transferring but that's not what the agreement said.

    Either MWPHGLofAL or GLofAL requested that no visitation happen for 10 years. They also don't say why. As seen in this thread, guessing has an extremely high failure rate as we technically don't even know which side requested that feature. The 10 year timing isn't unique - Texas waited about that long before setting up visitation details.

    Search around and I bet there will be other restrictions in one compact or another.

    Most jurisdictions have an "act like the locals" rule when visiting. As a member you aren't visiting but since you would be in a California lodge at the time, local would mean California. Visits between MWPHGLofCA and GLofCA are very common. My mother lodge has a PHA lodge as a tenant so we only have to walk to the next room. You would act like a local and welcome the visitor to your own lodge.
     
  16. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    Well, thankfully now, it's a non-issue since visitation has been granted in both jurisdictions. That being said, I've yet to actually make a visit. It's been on my list of to-do's for awhile, but...I just haven't done it. I need to fix that.
     
  17. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    When i was in NM. We had a brother from SC visit and it just happened to be a night we had the Sitting GM and a sitting Master and a couple brothers from the local MWPHGLoNM. SC doesn’t have recognition at all with PHA. He stayed as it would have cause disharmony had he left.....I believe that we left his name off the register though just in case


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  18. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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  19. BullDozer Harrell

    BullDozer Harrell Registered User

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    Better said than me. Thanks.

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  20. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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