Grand Lodges in Italy

Discussion in 'International Freemasonry' started by RhushidaK, May 30, 2017.

  1. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

    Good point bro, but I was kinda thinking about the focus being Italy (title of thread).

    That said, there is some good reasons not to recognize some GLs. But the criteria for acting that way should not be skin colour, religion or Masonic politics or dummy spits. I'd love to visit LDH.... but I would not let them into my Lodge, and I can't have it my own way. Some irregular and unrecognized GLs like LDH, OWF and HFoAF should be respected, but that does not mean they'll ever conform to our GLs standard of regularity... which is fine.

    The world does not have to be a homogeneous place, heaven forbid!

    I still find it amusing we're focusing on Italy in this broad topic, esp when you look back at "Italian" Grand Lodges, esp in the context of the Revolution and Wars of the Papal States. Issues in Italy are not just the type of P3, but predate Giuseppe Garibaldi and his GM. I've only done a bit of reading on it, but it's fascinating
    Warrior1256 and Ripcord22A like this.
  2. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

    Again agreed.
  3. RhushidaK

    RhushidaK Registered User

    Well the focus was on Italy coz I just visited it last week and was completely lost which Grand Lodge to contact. That set other wheel in motion in my head as to their fights

    True Bro. It's a really broad topic. But the past is the past; something to study rather than keep fighting upon. Which I found in Italy. Not sure if there are other countries where such situations still exist.
    Bloke likes this.
  4. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

    For sure there is !
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  5. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor


    the two GLs in Paraguay.
    nine of the PHA jurisdictions in the US.
    Some would creditably suggest Bulgaria as well as GLdF/GLNF. Certainly MN was convinced of the latter.
    Some wonder why PHO and PHA don't merge, resolving legitimacy of origin issues for PHO who otherwise appear to be regular in practice.
    RhushidaK likes this.
  6. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

    I dont know anything about these other then PHA and the GLNF/GLdF...but of those i dont think PHA fits what hes referring to. I dont think, and Bro Glenn you are much more versed in these situations then I so correct me if Im wrong, but the OP appears to be talking about fighting between the 2 GLs about who is more legitimate and deserves to be THE GL.
    I dont believe that to be the case with those 9 US Jurisdictions. They just dont recognize eachother at the GL level and bothsides like it that way. I dont think either side questions the others ability to exist and work. I mean I've spoken with men from those jurisdictions who say they approached one or the others lodges and was directed to the other. If they didnt believe that the other had a right to exist wouldn't they not do that and keep all the new members for themselves?

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  7. Luigi Visentin

    Luigi Visentin Registered User

    The situation in Italy is pretty complicated. A survey has found more than 80 (eighty) different associations claiming to be "masonic". Usually Freemasonry in Italy refers to three entities: the Grande Oriente d'Italia, the oldest (1805) and bigger (about 23,000 brothers), which is also my Grand Lodge, and that is not recognized by United Grand Lodge of England, which recognize the second biggest entity, the Gran Loggia Regolare d'Italia. The third is the Gran Loggia d'Italia degli ALAM, born in 1910, which however is in serious internal difficulties.
    There are some efforts to try to put together the two biggest Lodges but there is a long story of "misunderstandings" that should be solved before making the final step. Hopefully there are some glimmers of light for the future.
    If you do not know who to contact, better that you check which Lodge is recognized by yours Grand Lodge before. Then it is pretty easy as even if we have not big "masonic houses" the addresses of the Lodges can be found on the Grand Lodges websites.

    P.s.: the name of the lodge of the scandal of the '80 is P2 from "Propaganda 2", not P3 (P3 and P4 are an inventions of journalists)
  8. Center

    Center Registered User

    Well the choice of GM Di Bernardo to move away from the French obedience and to found a new one in 1993 is not directly linked of the well known `propaganda 2` , the reasons are really complex and in some ways questionable, the most known one is the so called 'Cordova Inquiry` and his relationship with some members inside the GOI. Unfortunately Italy went trough another famous schism long time before, the split between 'Palazzo Giustiniani` and `Piazza del Gesu` in 1908 regarding different views inside the Grand Orient regarding the teaching of the religion inside the elementary schools. The same Di Bernardo left the founded GLRI to found the Academy of the Dignity Order in 2002. There are much more considerations to do, but what matters is that the historic tradition of the Freemasonry in Italy is really solid, and there are in every part of the world men of great quality that witness with their dignity the unchangeable precepts of Masonry as landmark of purity, work and freedom, indiscriminately from which lodge they belong, and in accordance with the principles to be a Free Mason.
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017

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