Having your light taken

Discussion in 'Prince Hall Freemasonry' started by mrpierce17, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    I know of a brother who was healed over into Prince Hall from international he has been a MM for at least 3 yrs under PHA and every time I see the brother he is Masonic from head to toe he has been warned several times by the craft not to ware anything Masonic until he can defend it he was tried by a brother and could not answer the question asked therefor his jacket was taken ... Long story short the brother is upset about his things being taken from him but what do you do when you have warned a brother about this issue time after time again he feels as if he is being picked on I think he is being tought a valuable lesson in knowing how to protect his emblems ijs ....what do the brothers here think on this subject..
     
  2. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    I'm not a fan of the idea that a Mason can be compelled to "defend" his property or have it taken from him. Taking someone's property by force or threat of force is a crime in pretty much every state, and not something Masons should be doing. However, I'm not a Prince Hall Mason, so it's just my opinion.
     
  3. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    No one said it was taken by force and no threat was made keep in mind these are brothers from the same lodge not just someone who he just met on the street , in saying that how would you feel if you saw a E.A. You know to be a E.A. and you had already had the discussion on when to and when not to be wearing Masonic light walking around with the M.M emblem on ?? Is it not still his property ? dose he still have the same right to wear it ?did he earn it ? is he worthy and .... well....you know the rest ..how shall I know him unless I try him
     
  4. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    I find it interesting that the challenging Masons feel it is proper to confiscate Masonic items while they apparently feel no obligation to educate their Brother.
     
  5. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    You say he is a Master Mason wearing Masonic emblems, correct? Then no one in his own lodge should be challenging him. An EA wearing Masonic emblems, on the other hand, should have wise counsel whispered in his ear. No Master Mason should have to "defend" himself in his own lodge.
     
  6. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    I guess this is why they say we PHA brothers do things a little different the only way I will know him to be a brother is by strict trial and due examination at least that's the way it is in my jurisdiction interesting comments though thank you for sharing
     
    phippalisious likes this.
  7. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    As I understood your post (punctuation is our friend, you know :)), the individual was a Master Mason, not an entered apprentice. Apparently your area has a custom of issuing Masonic challenge questions and if deemed not answered correctly, some how there is a demand for an article of clothing. This is not a custom of which I would approve, since you ask. I do not understand this to be the way to treat a brother. However, it is not my grand lodge or lodge. I also suspect it is not part of your GL code/constitution/bylaws.

    In your second post, you pose that the individual is an EA. I would take him aside and advise him that we don't wear the S&C until we are an MM, if that is your GL rule. I would not seek to embarrass him or take his belongings

    I also question referring to an article of clothing or jewelry as "Light." We could probably fill a server with references to Masonic Light (I would invite attention to AASR SJ 32nd Degree), but until now I had not heard of items of apparel considered "light." In fact, I could argue they impede light.
     
  8. caution22113

    caution22113 Registered User

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    The brotherly thing to do would be to educate the brother, rather than humiliating him.
     
  9. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    If you read closely you will see that the brother was previously caution not to wear any emblems that he could not defend if you can't tell me what it is and it's use masonicly you should not have it on .I see many newly raised brothers on this app asking the question when can I wear my ring ..most answers are in the fashion of When you are comfortable being tried or when you can defend it
     
    PHAmily! likes this.
  10. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    I honestly think the brother was not trying to embarrass him just showed him a little tuff love better a brother from your lodge than a stranger I think this sort of thing was more common in the older days guess this guy was old school the I'm sure the property was gave back with the instruction to go back to your ritual and become better informed
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2014
  11. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    I can sit with a brother in conversation for a few minutes and know if he is a brother without any proficiency challenge whatsoever, so I don't understand the tradition in your jurisdiction. But it's the tradition in your jurisdiction so it's what you're taught to do. I have little need to check dues cards and go over recognition issues unless a man presents himself at lodge. Out in public I don't have to care about that level of detail.

    I take it this brother has basically failed to learn or retain his proficiencies. I wonder if the responses he gives are still from his "mother jurisdiction" and thus clandestine or incorrect in other ways. If you and I were to decide to go over our proficiencies I'd deliver parts that I remember word for word, parts that I remember the story and parts that mix my jurisdictions together. You would quickly understand that I know my degrees but that I learned some different details. Can you tell if this is what's happening with him versus not knowing the story?
     
  12. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    dfreybur likes this.
  13. Levelhead

    Levelhead Premium Member

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    How many brothers wear shirts with the 47th problem of Euclid and have no idea how to explain it ? ;)

    Im not going to take a brothers shirt like im smarter and i busted him so im gonna pull rank (not literally).

    NO i sit down with a brother and go over the subject with him. Now he's educated!

    Im starting to realize why PH is not recognized in FL more and more every time i hear stories like this.
     
    the_widows_son and Morris like this.
  14. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I agree. I'm a new MM and not sure about Masonic law but I would think that wearing Masonic clothing, trinkets, etc. while not entitled would be a violation of Masonic law if you are a member of a lodge. If so action should be taken. However, taking someone's private property seems wrong and, if anyone tried that with me, dangerous.
     
  15. japool

    japool Registered User

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    That was uncalled for.
     
  16. Levelhead

    Levelhead Premium Member

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    So is pretty much punking a person down and taking something they paid for.

    Just saying.
     
  17. japool

    japool Registered User

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    I agree.
     
  18. Levelhead

    Levelhead Premium Member

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    Just to add. I wish they were recognized and i would treat a ph brother as i would treat any brother from my lodge.

    Im actually against the un recognized crap. Just to clear that up.

    -carl
     
  19. samuelrobyn

    samuelrobyn Registered User

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    I never could understand that. Why won't the two come together? is there something stoping that? Also why is it when I talk about freemasonry every expects I'm talking about joint ph is there such a huge difference?
     
    mrpierce17 likes this.
  20. MaineMason

    MaineMason Registered User

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    The Grand Lodge of Maine recognizes PHA. Given the history of Freemasonry in Maine, this is hardly surprising.
     

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