How do you deal with it???

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by Randy Allen Thomas, Mar 25, 2011.

  1. Randy Allen Thomas

    Randy Allen Thomas Registered User

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    Im sure somewhere down the line each one of you have crossed paths with someone who has been so mis-informed about masonry, and has nothing but negative conspiracy theorist ideas embedded in there minds about the fraternity. How do you deal with this? And what are some good responses to there ignorant minded statements??? My situation is with a very close co-worker who had always been somewhat hard headed, but for the most part easy to work with. Until now he never said much to me about being a mason, but since I was raised (just last Monday) and he noticed my ring, he has made some pretty snide remarks regarding things that he has no clue about in front of other co-workers, which usually leads to some very controversial conversations in which I just either keep quiet or just walk away from. How do I defend myself and the fraternity with out crossing any lines??? By the way hes also the kind of person who is always right and never wrong, Im sure you know the type. Any advice that would be helpful to my situation would be greatly appreciated. Thanks...
     
  2. Bro Mike

    Bro Mike Registered User

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    Don't argue with ignorance.

    That is the best way.
     
  3. Beathard

    Beathard Premium Member

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    It is extremely difficult to convince a person that their incorrect information is wrong. There is so much documented incorrect information for them to pull from vs so little we can openly offer. Arguing will on result in your being stressed and frustrated. It is often better to walk away and feel sorry for the less enlightened and misdirected of the world.
     
  4. Bro. Brad Marrs

    Bro. Brad Marrs Premium Member

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    Brother,

    I don't think there is anything you can say or do to change his mind. I'm sure you've done the obvious, and pointed out all of the good the fraternity does on a daily basis. However, we are cautioned about getting into these types of discussions. So, if he keeps it up, you could offer him the opportunity to have this discussion with him and some of the leadership at your Lodge.

    Here's a good read: http://204.3.136.66/web/SRpublications/DeHoyos.htm

    This topic was also discussed quite a bit once before, you might find this thread helpful? http://www.masonsoftexas.com/showthread.php?13047-What-do-you-tell-the-Anti-Freemason
     
  5. TX_Traveler

    TX_Traveler Registered User

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    Congratulations on your recent ascent to MM Brother Thomas. I highly recommend that you find and read a copy of "A Pilgrim's Path" by John J. Robinson. It is a great book that outlines some of the negative (misguided) views of Masonry and where they came from. The key to these situations is to have the knowledge and understanding to rebut or correct the one with the misinformed views. When I hear something of this nature from someone, it's always nice to be able to tell them where their information came from, why it's incorrect and provide the truth while providing references for my points. Most controversial views of Masonry today are recycled old stories created by biased individuals who had something to gain by creating the controversy.

    As a new MM, you are not expected to have all the answers just yet but through gaining knowledge and understanding of the craft through exposure to well informed Brethren, you will be just fine.

    P.S. Some folks don't care about the truth when a lie gets them so much more attention.
     
  6. Beathard

    Beathard Premium Member

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    And their final argument to combat your facts: "You are not a high enough degree yet." The ultimate trump card in any anti-Masonic argument.
     
  7. Brent Heilman

    Brent Heilman Premium Member

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    I love that line. From what I have seen it is always only the 33 degree Masons who know the "real" truth of Freemasonry. Oh, and everyone else in the conspiracy world. My question has always been if only the 33 degree Masons know it then how did the conspiracy theorists all find out but not any other Brother in the fraternity?
     
  8. Dave in Waco

    Dave in Waco Premium Member

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    One of my responses to someone who isn't willing to even begin to entertain the idea that their information is incorrect is this. "That's your opinion, and you have Masons to thank for making sure you have the right to express it." Then walk away.

    As for the anti-Masonic trump card, my response, "And you aren't either. Any firsthand information you may have comes from someone who has already proven to have lied to his friends and people he called brother. So if you are to believe the word of a proven liar about a secret told only to a select few in an age old organization and those people intent on doing the organization harm, without a scrap of proof to contradict centuries of information about that organization, then your logic is flawed beyond belief."
     
  9. Preston DuBose

    Preston DuBose Registered User

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    Brother, congratulations on being raised! Back when I was a newly made Mason I found this website did a good job of picking apart the anti-masonic rhetoric. http://www.masonicinfo.com/

    Ultimately, I found the simplest response was to explain that one simply can't prove a negative. I can't prove Masonry isn't involved in nefarious deeds any more than you can prove you're not really a sleeper cell terrorist. That's why our legal system presumes innocence.

    As far as conspiracies go, Freemasonry is a pretty sorry one if "everyone knows." If we already rule the world, why the heck am I working so hard on fundraisers to pull our little lodge up away from all that red ink? Maybe I should put out a tip jar at our car show for contributions to a "world domination fund". :)
     
  10. Dave in Waco

    Dave in Waco Premium Member

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    Oh when it comes to the World Domination arguement, I just quote history. After the Revolutionary War, George Washington, perhaps America's most famous Freemason, was approached by many people about being installed as King of America. He responded in true Washington fashion. "I did not fight a war against King George III to be crowned King George I." George Washington did go on to become the first President of the United States and established many of the traditions and rules for the office. He took his oath of office on a Bible obtained from a nearby Masonic Lodge, as many of the Presidents have done on the same Bible since him, both Masons and non-Masons alike. He would not allow anyone to call him by and style such as His Majesty or such. He did not even like the address of Mr. President, choosing instead to just be referred to as General in regards to his military commission given him by the colonies. After his second term, he rejected the popular idea of seeking a third term, establishing the tradition of term limits for the President that would be a law over 160 years later. So while George Washington, and by extension Masons, were offered the rule of America, they would not except it. When encouraged by the public to remain as President, Washington stepped aside again, making way for John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, both non-Masons.
     
  11. tom268

    tom268 Registered User

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    I tried to argue with them for quite a long time, but I realized, it is a waste of time. They don't want to loose their ignorant state of mind, because it is secure. The daily life is so easy, if you have one to blame for all your mishaps. You don't get the job you tried to get? It's because you know so much about the masons, and they try to make it hard for you. You need more money to live than your social benefits provide? Because the masons want to keep you small.
    To "know" so much secret things makes them important. Most of the conspiracy fans are very simple people. But they don't want to be simple, they want to be important. And what is better than being battled by the world's most powerful organization and stand your ground?

    Most conspiracy legends are water tight. They go round and round in circles, being immune to outside information, that are by definition wrong or willingly falsified, because they are from outside. The outside is controlled by them, remember?

    Ignore them if you can. There are a few, who are willing to break loose from this circle, but you will know them, if you face them. Those rare can need neutral and good information.
     
  12. Paul E. Wunsche

    Paul E. Wunsche Registered User

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    There has been alot of information givin to this young Brother, and it is all sound advise. I would suggest that you only address questions or comments that you are comfortable answering. Never be afraid to say " I don't know or I can't answer that." If this person is persistent in his comments invite him to Lodge, that will normally shut them down because they are afraid of the truth. I congratulate you on being Raised, and don't let the less informed get you down.
     
  13. Thestoat

    Thestoat Guest

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    Congratulations on being raised brother.

    I had a similar thing with my wifes aunties boyfriend, I simply stopped speaking to him, and at a recent funeral I proudly wore my forget me not pin badge, and when asked by him why, I told him, I was honoring the sacrifice of my brother masons who were persecuted and killed by the Nazis in the second world war, he just walked away after that.

    What your co worker is doing is essentially trying to bully you, ignore him, the conspiracy theorists are very many over here, but even on my works twitter account I make sure it's known I'm a mason.

    I think, to give you some sort of sustenance to get you through a hard situation, WE ARE FREEMASONS AND PROUD OF OUR HISTORY!!
     
  14. Randy Allen Thomas

    Randy Allen Thomas Registered User

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    Thank you... Each and every one of you have very strong words of wisdom, which I needed to hear. This morning after the latest confrontation with my co-worker I was feeling a lil down. Not in shame, but in the since that I felt defeated and could not defend myself nor the fraternity. I do believe that the wisdom shown here today will be the start of my rebuttal if the situation comes up again and im sure it will... Once again, THANKS!!! I new if anyone could help me it would be my Brothers!!!
     
  15. Dave in Waco

    Dave in Waco Premium Member

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    That's what we brethren do, help, aid and assist each other.

    But something to always remember when dealing with conspiracy theorists. All they are capable of doing is parroting someone else's faulty or biased information, while as a Mason, you are taught to seek out the light of knowledge and form your own opinions.

    Also, another important fact to point out to your co-worker is a little history lesson, being that you are in Texas. Ask him how he likes Texas. Then inform him, that just like America, Texas was founded on Masonic principles. Tell him that Stephen F. Austin while considered to be the father of Texas, he also sought to found the first Masonic lodge in Texas through the Grand Lodge of Mexico. Then ask him what he knows about the Battle of the Alamo. Then ask him if he knew that Colonels William Travis, Jim Bowie and Davy Crockett were all Masons. Then go on to tell him that Masonry was so important to Texas, that the Charter for the first lodge was in the saddle bags of, Mason and future President of Texas, Anson Jones during the Battle of San Jacinto. In fact, General Sam Houston the Commander-in-Chief of the Texas Army was also a Mason. Then go on to tell him that Masonry was so important to Texas, that a year after Texas won their independence, a group of Masons meet to organize and elect officers for the Grand Lodge of the Republic of Texas. The met in the then capitol of Texas, Houston. In fact, the met in the Senate Chamber. And that it was such an important meeting that it was presided over by none other then sitting President of Texas, General Sam Houston, arguablely the most important man in Texas. So to recap, Mason, war hero, and President of of Texas, General Sam Houston was presiding of the organizing the Grand Lodge of the Republic of Texas, the Senate Chamber of the Republic of Texas, in the capitol of the Republic of Texas, in the city that bears his name. Makes one wonder what other kind of impact Masons have had on Texas. In America, which is often considered the great Masonic experiment, about 1/4 of the Presidents have been Masons. In the Republic of Texas, all of the presidents were Masons, and so were their vice-presidents. Not to mention, the 4th President of the Republic of Texas who signed Texas into statehood, was also the first Grand Master of Texas. Since becoming a state, the majority of Texas governors have been Masons, along with Govenor Pat Neff also serving as a Grand Master of Texas. But all of that history is probably just Masons trying to over-glorify their importance in Texas history. If Masons were really that important, then there would be more then a couple of our biggest and most important cities bearing their names. Then ask him if he knows the name of the county you are currently in, and then inform him it was named after a Mason, just like the other 243 counties in Texas.
     
  16. Thestoat

    Thestoat Guest

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    Interesting stuff on how masons helped form America, if there truly was a conspiracy, to rule the world, and America was ruled by masons, there wouldn't be any conspiracy theorists, as they'd be stopped.

    I think Texas is a jolly good example of a state helped by masons, and an example of how a real masons nation state could be.

    I have over here in England accounts from the 17th century of masons in otley who went to america, they refered to it as the new world, as did members of my family who went over for a new start, I hope that we will instrumental in the next big movement of human kind, whatever that would be.
    Whatever the future holds, Masonic involvement would only make it better!!
    Let's not forget the Nazis wanted to wipe us all out, first thing they did was persecute us masons, and then kill any one who spoke out, it's be because of us humankind is free to say what they want
     
  17. KFerguson84

    KFerguson84 Premium Member

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    Brother,
    I find people like that comical. If they only knew the good that this Fraternity has done for the world. I can speak specifically to what it has done for me personally. I am a better person because of my being part of this extraordinary Brotherhood. When people chose to judge me because I am a Mason, I say to myself, "Every person builds their own temple. I have no doubt that mine is architecturally strong. If they choose to make theirs with no knowledge of how to cut the stones, then let them do so."
     
  18. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Just pull out your little black book, start writing his name down and ask to confirm the spelling of his last name.

    If he confirms it, follow with a request for his birth date.

    If asked why, simply reply: they can track you much easier with a true birth date, but it's not necessary since they will know where you work.
     
  19. MikeMay

    MikeMay Premium Member

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    LOL! At that point I would be sorely tempted to walk away whistling...
     
  20. wwinger

    wwinger Registered User

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    Ignorance takes many forms but for most, the advice from the EA charge is probably the best, "...neither are you to suffer your zeal for the institution to lead you into argument with those, who through ignorance, may ridicule it."

    However, when someone mentions our conspiracy to take over the world I like to say, "Its a shame we aren't allowed to discuss it."
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2011

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