Potential reasons one might be blackballed

Discussion in 'Frequently Asked Questions' started by RobertTheBruce, Dec 31, 2015.

  1. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    Yes, REALLY.
     
  2. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Yes, really. Well, maybe a second thought would be given. But I have done so and would do so.

    I would also invite your attention to the charge of the first degree, regarding never mentioning His name but with that awe and reverence which are due from the creature to the Creator.
     
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  3. Joe Ellis

    Joe Ellis https://UniqueFreemason.com Premium Member

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    Oh dear...!
     
  4. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    In Wisconsin, if there is a black ball, the Worshipful Master informs the lodge that the brother who cast the black ball has 48 hours to tell him the reason for the black ball. If no one comes forward, the ballot is declared clear. If a reason is given to the Master, it is forwarded to the Grand Master, who determines if the reason is within the rules of the Grand Lodge of Wisconsin. If so, the black ball is upheld, if not, the petition is accepted.

    I was so skeptical when I first heard this, that I checked it myself, and there it was, in the Wisconsin Masonic Code, clear as day.
     
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  5. Joe Ellis

    Joe Ellis https://UniqueFreemason.com Premium Member

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    What an excellent way forward Mark. I can see this method being highly desirable in England
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2016
  6. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    But here in Minnesota, the penalty for disclosing your ballot, or expressing disagreement with the outcome of a ballot, is "expulsion, and no other."
     
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  7. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    Well, it's certainly not a secret ballot though, is it?
     
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  8. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    Actually, I pretty strongly disagree with the Wisconsin method, for the reason I gave earlier. If you have knowledge that a person should be disqualified, for reasons you are not free to reveal, you are left with the decision to violate the confidence you hold or allow someone unsuited to become a Mason.

    I have on several occasions been retained as an expert witness. In that capacity, I've been allowed to review documents, depositions, videos, audio recordings, etc., with strict instructions from a judge that I was not to reveal anything therein. What if I knew something disqualifying about a petitioner as a result of that professional work? Revealing it would not only be unethical, but would expose me to contempt of court penalties. A secret ballot black ball, with no one knowing who dropped it or why, would not. The same would apply to attorney/client privilege or to physician/patient confidentiality.
     
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  9. Joe Ellis

    Joe Ellis https://UniqueFreemason.com Premium Member

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    I still love the Wisconsin method, demonstrates how they have moved forward with the times, but of course, respect your views
     
  10. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2016
  11. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    You say "in England", but to be clear, you are not a member of UGLE, correct?
     
  12. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    In all three of my jurisdictions the secrecy of the ballot is sacrosanct so your vote can not be divulged under any circumstances. This is considered a landmark.

    I know that each jurisdiction has its own landmarks but I never considered that this one might be missing from the list of some jurisdictions.

    I notice a subtle change in topic half way into Bro Bill's post. He would drop a cube on a man not qualified. He would point a man without a cultural fit to another lodge.

    When I relocate I attend more than one local lodge and I ask around about lodge cultures. I chose carefully which lodge I affiliate with. When I was about to petition I asked friends I knew to be Masons if the one I was considering would be a good match for me and they agreed it would be.

    A candidate will not always have the resources to be able to ask that question and get that advice. Having a member say that Lodge X would be a good cultural fit for me to petition is a service to the candidate and a service to Masonry.

    But what of candidates who petition anyways? I think we've all seen brothers take their degrees, learn they aren't a good cultural fit and transfer to another lodge. I know we've all seen brothers take their degrees, learn they aren't a good cultural fit and leave Masonry. Much better to search for a cultural fit up front.

    When I first read Bro Bill's statement I leaned back and questioned it. Then I read more carefully and noticed the change of subject.
     
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  13. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    Bro. Ellis posted "No lodge would blackball you if it is a good lodge, but would rather say that it is best to seek membership at another lodge. Blackballing someone, in my eyes, is not Masonic."

    Hence the change of subject. As I read his statement, he would pass an unworthy candidate off on some other Lodge. As I see it, we ALL have the responsibility to guard the West Gate & protect the entire Fraternity, not just our individual Lodges.
     
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  14. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Absolutely.
    Same here in Kentucky.
    Agreed.
    Excellent example.
     
  15. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Same here.
    Totally agree!
     
  16. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    Out of curiosity, how many black balls are required to reject a candidate in WI?

    Needing to justify yourself to anyone for blackballing a candidate sounds terrible and I'm glad we don't have this in Texas.
     
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  17. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    Just one, if it's upheld by the Grand Master.
     
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  18. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Very much agree brother. Glad that we don't have this in Kentucky.
     
  19. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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  20. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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