Prop 5

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by Blake Bowden, Dec 7, 2009.

  1. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    Brethren,

    I've read through numerous arguments, but I feel the passing of Prop. 5 was a HUGE disservice to our Craft. Can any Brother tell me how this will benefit our Lodges? Do you honestly believe this will IMPROVE the quality of our ritual work? Sorry, but it was a vote of convenience, NOT Freemasonry.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2009
  2. ddreader

    ddreader Premium Member Premium Member

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    i feel like this was a step backwards for us.( my opinion). we lost the vote. but not the ability to try to change it back. i felt like this was more of a you cannot tell us what to do in our subordinate lodge . and a in your face kind of thing. i mean if you think the grand east is big brother. maybe you missed the point of it all somewhere. (my opinion.) i do not remember the grand lodge of Texas asking me to join. i think it was what i wanted to do. and i kinda remember agreeing to fallow their rules before i did so. how about you. did you do that to. or was it just me? i will respect the fact that we were out voted and fallow the new rules as i should. i hope that the quality of the work improves. now that our lodges do not have to meet. a required standard of excellence . they can just do what they think is best as they see fit. i wander what other kind of overbearing requirement will be on the list next time? may god bless us as we head down this knew road of freedom.
     
  3. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    Fat chance of that happening. :sad:
     
  4. ddreader

    ddreader Premium Member Premium Member

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    well written brother.
     
  5. Bro. Stewart P.M.

    Bro. Stewart P.M. Lead Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    I have to agree with what has been said thus far. I believe that this is a step backwards from the direction that we should be heading.
     
  6. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    What stops a Lodge from adopting in their rules or regulations that your WM has to be certed by the DI. Why does GL have to make us do it why can we not be big boys and do it on our own. Sure you have Lodges who do not give a stink but that law did not change them last year nor will it change them in the future. If you want your Lodge to have a focus on knowing the ritual then make it so, I do not see the value in having GL do the work that should be done by a lodge. Next thing you know we will pass a law to have GL come mow our lodges grass or maybe wipe our ___.. ! If we as lodges get so dependent on GL to make sure we are responsible then why have lodges at all.
     
  7. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    Rhit, beat me to the punch. What stops the individual lodges from adding a requirement that the Lodge officers hold a "c" certificate from the CoW? I know this is a shock coming from me but we want our Lodges to have more power yet we want Grand Lodge to govern us. Can't have both. All the Lodges that hold the higher standard will survive through the time ahead. We are about to drop members like tempratures at night and only the strong lodges will survive. If people don't have a reason to be at a Lodge they won't come. To me it doesn't matter one way or the other. We (at my Lodge) will continue to have the bar raised for our officers to meet it.
     
  8. Bigmel

    Bigmel Premium Member Premium Member

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    I am a 40 + year Mason and I have seen a lot of change in the Law Book. I have no problem with the Form 101 and that is what this is all about. Every lodge should be able to open and close their Lodge. And the East is not a Training ground for that. However, it is not the Grand East job to tell or certify a Master for that position. Several years a go the Law book stated that the elected Master Shall be able to open and close the lodge and most Lodges set their Lodge Instructor to labor instructing the line Officers in their duties for opening the lodge in the correct manner and the results was reported to said lodge, They had Pride that their Masters and Line Officers could do their duties., and that was left up to the Lodge to determine if he was.. And the then it was changed Should, a big difference in the word. That is when the Lodges started loosing their pride. Our young Masons should be trained not given the history of our Fraternity
     
  9. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    I'm gonna bring this up next Monday about adding a DI certification for our officers in our by-laws. We need to be qualified to open and close. The other stuff on the "c" cert, I don't really care about.
     
  10. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    Our lodge has hurt a few peoples feelings that wear them on their sleeve so much so in some cases they left all together but the goods ones come back and stick around because their is discipline and something to work for.

    I am with you WM we need to add that to our rules or regs not the by-laws though that takes GL approval and rules and regs are just as binded and much easier and quicker.
     
  11. jonesvilletexas

    jonesvilletexas Premium Member

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    Brethren I hear a lot of Big Brother, The Grand Lodge is makings us do this or do that and so on.
    Who do you think Grand Lodge is? When YOU as a lodge vote in a brother into office, now that cannot NOR has the desire to learn the opening and closing of the lodge, YOU have put a vote in the hands of a brother that I am not quite sure I would won’t voting for me at Grand Lodge.
     
  12. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    My question is why in the world would a Lodge vote in an officer who turns their nose to the ritual work? What happened to the prestige of the chairs. The "old guys" used to make being an officer something to attain and work for, now the chairs are just babysitters and mediators most of the time at best. There are many causes to this problem but one major one is the fact lodges and Masons believe someone in Waco has a magic wand to fix their lodges problems.
     
  13. jonesvilletexas

    jonesvilletexas Premium Member

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    The By-Laws of the Lodge once approved by the By-Laws Committee become an extension of The Grand Lodge Laws and if they are not in conflict with them the lodge can put ant regulation they won’t. Please check me out.
     
  14. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    How so? What do you mean "rules and regs?"
     
  15. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    Come on now, like we haven't seen crazier stuff in Masonry?
     
  16. RAY

    RAY Registered User

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    Prior to election we test our own officers as to proficiency in there respective office. We hold instruction every week and we don't need GL to wipe our noses for us. It's each lodges responsibility to see that the required level of knowledge is achieved. Last year I saw officers in lodge that couldn't open a door much less a lodge that were passed by GL instructors. It's up to us to see that we raise the quality of officers needed period. Resolution 5 was voted on and passed so its a done deal and I am glad to see it gone since it didn't work as it should.PGM Griffith stated in GL that he would never fail a Brother if he was trying to learn. I see no up grading any lodge with that statement. If a Brother can't learn opening and closing a lodge it make's me wonder how he passed his esoterical
     
  17. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    Hey why do degree's? I say we nix them too. What the hell.. ! Why have the Committee on Work? Why have Grand Lodge then? We can keep going. If there is no uniformity then the system has failed. I agree the Lodges can govern themselves but some don't plain and simple. The ones that don't can't be forced if there is no rule or regulation to do so. Otherwise the GL is powerless.

    What do you do when you get you brother initiated and in the small town they give him a code book to tlearn the work because no one knows the work? Just let it happen? Why not, its going perfect at YOUR Lodge. Our system is flawed and this is the mindset that people don't want to come to the realization that needs to be tweaked to stop the Lodges that are taking care of the fact that just because it is not written don't mean you don't have to do it. I personally get tired of pwople with the blinders on. Travel to a lodge and sit in a HORRIBLE opening and closing. The light is dim and is the Square and compass sign out front is the only thing letting these guys pay dues then that is a problem that our GL should be able to take care of. We just stopped them from doing so. So I have to stand and applaud the ones that voted to pass this resolution and say thank you for making Masonry that much better (<---- Sarcasm). For once our GL took a stand on an issue and our Grand West dropped the ball. If the lodges would do their job we wouldn't have the issues we currently have.

    For those that run perfect Lodges, this is not to you. I do challenge you to go to other Lodges and as many as you can. If in your travels you visit a Lodge where everyone is uneasy and you start to feel real bad for the guy in the east because you know he is very embarrased to have a visitor and can't open and close (like I had to go through) you will understand and maybe, just maybe you can help find a solution. Oh and just because your master can lead a fundraiser and make a good brisket that don't make him be able to spread Masonry, that makes him a good public relations committee chairman. I want someone to explain the symbolism and allegories and lead the Lodge.

    Hey, I'm just a Secretary Pro-Tem what do I know. Apparently nothing. Tom, Soap Box is yours.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2009
  18. js4253

    js4253 Premium Member Premium Member

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    Keep up the good work. I'm sure you will be able to improve your Lodge.
     
  19. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    Please don't get me wrong we are taking the steps to add this in our by-laws. We have for the past few years raised our bar so high that we are growing in a positive direction exponetially. We have been asked to do programs at Lodges all over our district and I know of 4 Lodges the programs in some form have been implimented with results. This is for Lodges we can't reach. This is for the guy that is trying to change his lodge but don't have the other 4 guys it takes to out number the good ole boy system that his Lodge has. This was not for me Brother, this was for that Mason that all he needed was a little help from Grand Lodge to throw a wrench in the current system at his Lodge and because this passed. We failed.
     
  20. js4253

    js4253 Premium Member Premium Member

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    Josh, I was just messing with you. I can tell you are very passionate about making Masonry all it should be. We need more can do people.
     

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