Shots Fired!

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by coachn, Mar 8, 2016.

  1. MRichard

    MRichard Mark A. Ri'chard Premium Member

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    Cause the senior grand lodge has to consent or waive jurisdiction. Not to mention the location of the problem in the Southern Confederate states except WV. I am sure there are problems on both sides.
     
  2. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    I don't have to imagine this. I had to deal with a situation when a couple in a lodge broke up, and the jilted (who was not a member of that lodge) kept coming back to the lodge, demonstrating jealousy, and finally was barred from visiting by vote of the lodge.

    We also have a married couple in a lodge where one was not elected Master (he was not proficient and was a difficult person) and so the unelected person has joined a clandestine lodge. It now leaves a distrust of the remaining brother, who is a nice guy.
     
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  3. MasterBulldawg

    MasterBulldawg Registered User

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    From what my understanding of the reasons why PHA in my state has not seeked recognition is they find we are not discriminating enough in who we allow to join.
     
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  4. David Carroll jr

    David Carroll jr Registered User

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    This is one discussion I am choosing to stay out of because it's just another family squabble and when the Waring factions kiss and make up there are going to be a lot of hurt feelings.
     
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  5. Ressam

    Ressam Registered User

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    There is an existance of 3 "types" of Love.
    1. Natural Love: Sexual Love between man & a woman. It's more related with instincts. And posterity.
    2. Kinship Love: Loving all relatives. Loving your mom, dad, grandpa, sisters, brothers, etc.
    3. Spiritual Love: The Most Important type of Love. Loving your neighbours, friends. Christ's Love.

    IMO, LGBT-community is related with 1'st type of Love.
    This is "road to nowhere". This is road to extinction. This is not within The Harmony of The Universe.
    I'm absolutely sure that -- GAOTU is not approvin' this kind of relations!
    But, of course, we have to tolerate them! But not promote, of course!
    Hold on, guys! Stay strong on this "Life Exam"!
     
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  6. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    No kissing in TN and GA
     
  7. MRichard

    MRichard Mark A. Ri'chard Premium Member

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    Could you elaborate on that? Are you saying they have a problem with who you let in the Grand Lodge of Florida? Who is the problem?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
  8. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    If UGLE pulls recognition over this issue *by calling it a move away from regularity*, MWPHGLofGA and MWPHGLofTN should very definitely request recognition from UGLE as they will then be the only regular jurisdictions in their territory. The UGLE has declared the emergence of PHA Masonry regular based on the circumstances of the time and based on the fact that African 459 tried to stay loyal to and in contact with the Premier GL of England who had issued their charter. The UGLE has declared the PHA family regular. They only recognize when local recognition is in place so it should work.

    I would be surprised in the UGLE would cite irregularity as the reason for pulling recognition. I predict that the UGLE will avoid comment as long as they can hoping this American matter will settle down on its own without input from them.

    They cite moral grounds, thus dodging the fact that what they are doing is bringing a religious law from exactly one religious family into their assemblies. It probably never even occurred to them that's what they were doing.

    If they took up a policy of dropping cubes, no one would have noticed for a long time and there's no reason for other jurisdictions to pull recognition. The locals would notice and the new generation would avoid Masonry actively instead of passively. Those jurisdictions would go the way of the Odd Fellows.




    It is easily shown that many PHA jurisdictions refuse to recognize. Here's a quote from the GLofCA recognition list as of 2014 starting page 459 of the 2014 Proceedings -

    The Grand Lodge of California has extended an offer of mutual recognition with
    the following Prince Hall Grand Lodges, but mutual recognition has not yet
    been established. Visitation between our members and members of Lodges
    under the jurisdiction of these Grand Lodges cannot yet be made. When mutual
    recognition is established, the Grand Secretary will notify our Lodges in writing.

    ARIZONA: Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Arizona and Its Jurisdiction*;
    CONNECTICUT: Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Connecticut, Inc. (29); HAWAII:
    Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Hawaii and Its Jurisdiction*; ILLINOIS: Prince Hall
    Grand Lodge of Illinois INDIANA: Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Indiana, Inc.*;
    IOWA: Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Iowa and Jurisdiction*; KANSAS: Prince
    Hall Grand Lodge of Kansas and Its Jurisdiction*; MARYLAND: Prince Hall
    Grand Lodge of Maryland and Its Jurisdiction*; MICHIGAN: Prince Hall
    Grand Lodge of the Jurisdiction of Michigan*; MINNESOTA: Prince Hall
    Grand Lodge Jurisdiction of Minnesota, Inc.*; NEW JERSEY: Prince Hall
    Grand Lodge of New Jersey, Inc.*; NEW YORK: Prince Hall Grand Lodge
    Jurisdiction of New York, Inc.*; NORTH CAROLINA: Prince Hall Grand
    Lodge of North Carolina and Jurisdictions, Inc.*; OHIO: Prince Hall Grand
    Lodge of the State of Ohio, Inc.*; OKLAHOMA: Prince Hall Grand Lodge
    Jurisdiction of Oklahoma*; VIRGINIA: Prince Hall Grand Lodge Jurisdiction of
    Virginia*; WASHINGTON: Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Washington State and
    Its Jurisdiction*; WISCONSIN: Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Wisconsin, Inc.*

    That's 18 PHA jurisdictions that have not bothered to recognize California by not responding to California's offer. In comparison when I tabulate the list of PHA jurisdictions that have returned California's offer I discovered there are 2 PHA jurisdictions California fails to list. I have corresponded with the Gr Sec a few times to see if that's a misprint* or those 2 just fell through the cracks at the time.

    This means that the number of PHA jurisdictions that ignores California is 9 times the number that California ignores. And twice the number that don't have local recognition. That's only for California. I bet there is a LOT of missing recognition completeness in both branches of our family.

    To PMs, WMs, SWs and JWs in all states I recommend that you look up your own recognition list and submit legislation to complete the set.

    I am a PM in Illinois so I have a vote there as well - Illinois recognizes every PHA with local recognition (called "blanket") and does not even track which PHA jurisdictions have responded.

    I am in the line in TX so for the moment I don't have a vote in that jurisdiction yet - It'll be a few years before I look up the Texas list and ask that it be completed.

    *Based on discussion with my wife last night I am highly likely to attend California GL this October. Since I'm going I need to force this issue by submitting legislation because I'll be there to defend it. No one will object to completing the list.
     
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  9. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Gotta approach this in pieces...........

    In my Jurisdictions this is a false statement as that part alludes to the relationships being unwated and illegal.

    I am all for keeping females out, even though it would be interesting to see how they would be clothed for the degrees....ha..see that right there is why we need to keep it males only. Also as someone stated before, its guy time, and its guy time where the wives know their hubbys are safe from the prying hands of other women.

    As Brother Glen already mentioned, its happend and it will happen again.

    They probably would not have. If no public outcry no way for them to know. And you should vote. At next weeks annual communication my lodges deligates are going to stand and speak and suggest that the GL send a letter to TN and GA condeming these actions, not their entire GL just these actions.
     
  10. Companion Joe

    Companion Joe Premium Member

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    All,
    I have read this and many other sites daily with great interest to keep abreast on people's thoughts on this situation, and this will be my only post (at least until after our annual communication later this month). Because I hold various Grand appointments, anything I say could be taken - and certainly taken out of context - by anyone in the world as official position. Please understand and accept my stance on that.

    I will say this: To partisans on either side of the aisle both in my home state and around the world, it is easy to swing the sword of righteousness when what you really know are half truths at best.

    The one thing I will go on record as saying, and you can sing it from the highest mountain tops, "My mama's only son is intelligent enough not to dive head first into an Internet dumpster fire."

    May brotherly prevail.
     
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  11. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Initials are confusing since "state" GLs use both sets. are you saying PH is holding out, or State? It definitely works both ways.
     
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  12. MasterBulldawg

    MasterBulldawg Registered User

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    [quote uid=14748 name="MasterBulldawg" post=157406]Also on the PH GLs - Most assume the F&amp;AM GLs are the ones withholding recognition but what if its the otherway around?[/QUOTE]<br />Initials are confusing since "state" GLs use both sets. are you saying PH is holding out, or State? It definitely works both ways.

    I am saying it is my understanding that PHA is not seeking recognition nor giving it.

    Sent from my SM-N910P using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
     
  13. MasterBulldawg

    MasterBulldawg Registered User

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    [quote uid=14748 name="MasterBulldawg" post=157431]From what my understanding of the reasons why PHA in my state has not seeked recognition is they find we are not discriminating enough in who we allow to join.[/QUOTE]<br /><br />Could you elaborate on that? Are you saying they have a problem with who you let in the Grand Lodge of Florida? Who is the problem?

    I am not entirely sure I was told that the reason why Prince Hall does not seek recognition is because we're not selective enough in who we admit as members. I have heard rumors that Prince Hall dues is significantly higher than our own dues. It seems to me we may be blue collar to their white collar.

    Sent from my SM-N910P using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
     
  14. MRichard

    MRichard Mark A. Ri'chard Premium Member

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    Unfortunately, that sounds like rumors and familiar rumors at that. Could be true or could be false. There are quite a few PHA members on here from Florida. Would be interesting to hear their take on it. @BroBook @mrpierce17
     
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  15. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    I believe our dues are pretty similar here in Florida I don't think that's the reason we are not yet in amenity
     
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  16. The Undertaker

    The Undertaker Premium Member

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  17. Ressam

    Ressam Registered User

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    Hi, Sir.
    You've made some mistakes with quotation.
    Please, expalain deeper, what you are not agree with(if you want).
     
  18. jermy Bell

    jermy Bell Registered User

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    I'm confused, is this the way that it was in the beginning? Or do we as a whole, change and keep changing things to suit the needs of others in order to be politically correct?
     
  19. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    <cough> Freemasonry has changed from its beginnings continually and usually due to changing social, political, and cultural norms.
     
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  20. jermy Bell

    jermy Bell Registered User

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    But why, why should we let these people into our fraternity that we see as undesirable? I think if these people that don't meet our qualifications, we shouldn't have to bow down to meet others needs. Isn't masonry a private club so to speak ? I mean if you belong to the VFW doesn't that mean that you can't join unless your a vet ? Why should masonry be any different ? And social change is not a good enough answer.
     

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