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Sovereign Grand Lodge of Egypt

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
it is necessary that the new grand lodge meets all the requirements of regularity, which may be identified in three categories: Autonomy (that it is supreme unto itself and does not share its authority with any other body, like a Supreme Council or a Grand Priory, etc.)

Note: Unfortunately, the GL of TX does not meet the first of the requirements of regularity listed above.
OK- I think I've figured out what you were trying to say, but your statement is incorrect. The GLoTX is supreme unto itself in that it is not under the authority of a higher body, such as the Supreme Council is over the Orients & Valleys of the SR. To say that it is not regular because it shares territorial jurisdiction with the MWPHAGLoTX is incorrect. GLoTX is the supreme authority over its own Lodges, and shares that authority with no other body.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
The territorial exclusivity issue was used as a red herring by Grand Lodges that wanted to never recognize Prince Hall. A report from UGLE disposed of that matter rather handily, pointing out that, from its inception, UGLE shared territory with the GL of Scotland and the GL of Ireland. Nobody sane has questioned the regularity of the UGLE.

Territorial exclusivity has not and has never been a valid criterion of regularity.
 

Mike Martin

Eternal Apprentice
Premium Member
The territorial exclusivity issue was used as a red herring by Grand Lodges that wanted to never recognize Prince Hall. A report from UGLE disposed of that matter rather handily, pointing out that, from its inception, UGLE shared territory with the GL of Scotland and the GL of Ireland. Nobody sane has questioned the regularity of the UGLE.
This is a little bit mixed up as the Home Grand Lodges only share "territory" in their Districts (that is outside of the UK), here in the UK the Home Grand Lodges may not Warrant Lodges in the territory of the others. IE there are no English Lodges in Ireland they are all under the Grand Lodge of Ireland even the ones in Northern Ireland which is actually a part of the UK. Where we share Territory with foreign national Grand Lodges (IE: Australia, Canada, India, New Zealand and South America) it is because the Home Grand Lodges had Lodges there first and their members voted to remain with their original Grand Lodge rather than join the new one.

You shouldn't really mention the Home Grand Lodges when talking about Prince Hall Masons as Prince Hall himself was made a Mason in an Irish Military Lodge and his first Lodge was Warranted by the Premier Grand Lodge of England. However, there is no connection to us after the War of Independence.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
You shouldn't really mention the Home Grand Lodges when talking about Prince Hall Masons as Prince Hall himself was made a Mason in an Irish Military Lodge and his first Lodge was Warranted by the Premier Grand Lodge of England. However, there is no connection to us after the War of Independence.

Is it your contention, then, that UGLE is in error in recognizing both MWPHGLoTX and GLoTX as being regular? I happen to know that this is the case.
 

Mike Martin

Eternal Apprentice
Premium Member
Is it your contention, then, that UGLE is in error in recognizing both MWPHGLoTX and GLoTX as being regular? I happen to know that this is the case.

No, not at all.

The only point I was making was that when people talk about the recognition issues between American Mainstream and PH Grand Lodges that the Grand Lodge of England (or Scotland or Ireland) has nothing to do with it.

To your other point the Basic Principles of Recognition that are applied by the Home Grand Lodges do not actually prevent recognition of more than one Grand Lodge within a geographic area. However. they will not recognise two Grand Lodges in one area if they do not recognise each other as that would lead to obviously disharmonious relations. This is why the Home Grand Lodges have almost immediately recognised each of the PH Grand Lodges as each of the MS ones do.

For info our Principle Five is below:
5. That the Grand Lodge shall have sovereign jurisdiction over the
Lodges under its control; i.e. that it shall be a responsible,
independent, self-governing organization, with sole and undisputed
authority over the Craft or Symbolic Degrees (Entered Apprentice,
Fellow Craft, and Master Mason) within its Jurisdiction; and shall
not in any way be subject to, or divide such authority with, a
Supreme Council or other Power claiming any control or
supervision over those degrees.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
No, not at all.

The only point I was making was that when people talk about the recognition issues between American Mainstream and PH Grand Lodges that the Grand Lodge of England (or Scotland or Ireland) has nothing to do with it.

It's all well and good to say that, but lack of recognition by UGLE of Prince Hall in general was once used as an excuse in the USA to refuse recognition of PHA Grand Lodges by various state Grand Lodges. It was the "trump card" that could be played. Thus, once UGLE admitted to the regularity of Prince Hall, another support was kicked out from under the racists' foul edifice.
 

Mike Martin

Eternal Apprentice
Premium Member
It's all well and good to say that, but lack of recognition by UGLE of Prince Hall in general was once used as an excuse in the USA to refuse recognition of PHA Grand Lodges by various state Grand Lodges. It was the "trump card" that could be played. Thus, once UGLE admitted to the regularity of Prince Hall, another support was kicked out from under the racists' foul edifice.
That is what is known as a "cop out" trying to blame the actions/choices of American Grand Lodges on a Grand Lodge thousands of miles away to which none of them are beholden and which has no say whatsoever on how they operate.

The Home Grand Lodges only had influence on American Masonry until the end of the War of Independence as at the end of that conflict the Masons in the newly independent country were cut loose from the Grand Lodges over here and that includes the Prince Hall Masons.

The way your forebears chose to arrange your Freemasonry is down to them not us, we have never had separate Lodges due to a man's colour, which is why that Irish Lodge had no hesitation Initiating him and his friends and why the Premier Grand Lodge had no problem Warranting his first Lodge.

You need to remember that every single Grand Lodge in the world is a sovereign and independent organisation. Each one practises Freemasonry how it sees fit and if it wants it may ask for recognition from other organisations which may or may not give it.
 

SGLE - Cairo

Registered User
After having consulted with UGLE as a matter of courtesy, they advised us that this revival would be legitimate if surviving members from NGLE formed part of SGLE as was done in Eastern Europe post the communist period. This is the case in Egypt, where the last remaining two members of NGLE were made honorary members of SGLE. One sadly passed away and the other remains a Master Mason in good standing as a member of Imhotep Lodge No. 1.

We currently are enjoying practicing the Ancient Egyptian Ritual and are seeing quality men join the ranks of the lodges. The fact that this is all begining from scratch has added to the beauty of this project. Many have attacked us as being illegitimate or spurious of many other wonderful names, but we continue to enjoy Freemasonry in our ancient homeland. We welcome every brother who practices the Royal Art as per the tenants of the Craft, and will reject no one due to masonic politics.

All good men are welcome to come knocking on our doors.
 

Mike Martin

Eternal Apprentice
Premium Member
After having consulted with UGLE as a matter of courtesy, they advised us that this revival would be legitimate if surviving members from NGLE formed part of SGLE as was done in Eastern Europe post the communist period. This is the case in Egypt, where the last remaining two members of NGLE were made honorary members of SGLE. One sadly passed away and the other remains a Master Mason in good standing as a member of Imhotep Lodge No. 1.

We currently are enjoying practicing the Ancient Egyptian Ritual and are seeing quality men join the ranks of the lodges. The fact that this is all begining from scratch has added to the beauty of this project. Many have attacked us as being illegitimate or spurious of many other wonderful names, but we continue to enjoy Freemasonry in our ancient homeland. We welcome every brother who practices the Royal Art as per the tenants of the Craft, and will reject no one due to masonic politics.

All good men are welcome to come knocking on our doors.
Very funny! 3 points.

1) This Grand Lodge is not recognised by the UGLE
2) Reponing (the process you describe) is not allowed under the UGLE, it is a GL of Scotland thing.
3) the UGLE would not advise you to use a process that it doesn't recognise.

And 1 question: what is the name of the person you spoke to at the UGLE?
 

SGLE - Cairo

Registered User
Gentlemen
There is no plot. We are not interested in anyone who isn't interested in us. We practice what we practice in peace and serenity and are not interested in politics of any sort. But just for the gentlemen who is enquiring as to whom we spoke to at UGLE and seems to know it all, please refer to nick bosanquet and john hamil whom we met at their offices in London.
 
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SGLE - Cairo

Registered User
All founding members are from: UGLE, grand lodge of philadehia, grand east of the Netherlands.

All new members were initiated in Cairo.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
All founding members are from: UGLE, grand lodge of philadehia, grand east of the Netherlands.

All new members were initiated in Cairo.


Every success in your worthy endeavours. Out of curiosity, what made you post your announcement in this forum?
 

SGLE - Cairo

Registered User
Thank you sir. We wanted to bring to all brethren worldwide the concept of eastern freemasonry. That's our true objective on an international scale. As stated previously we feel that the west is too engrossed in politics and not focused enough on the true practices of the Royal art. We naturally recognize and accept that there are different ways of scaling the pyramid and are not critical of anyone. We simply wanted to practice what our ancestors left us and we finally are doing so.

As to why we posted here, the Internet is naturally the fastest way to disseminate information. We also have a very active Facebook page and we enjoy the positive feedback that we receive from most brethren.
 
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