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Thelema

Sirius

Registered User
can you really become a better man if you are the wife of another man?

that may sound like an asshole comment, but it's a genuine question. honestly, can you? it got me thinking what i thought about it.

i've had my thoughts about a brother or two that i've met, and at the time, i didn't really have a problem with it.

Yes. All relationships are the same in that all relationships are different. A man who is inclined to work to be a better man will do so , no matter what. I think the relationship is the bigger aspect than the sex organs of the individuals. How does it go, as iron sharpens iron...

What does being a 'wife' mean anyway? In today society woman are socially independent and just a active as men. So the term really means a female who lives in a state of marriage with a man.

As individuals we are more complicated than the summation of various demographics (eg. straight white baptist man from East Texas). It's the character that counts.
 

JTM

"Just in case"
Premium Member
me and my backwoods way of thinking, men and women are designed and evolved for specific purposes. a grandmother has a specific purpose (look at the tribal peoples... they still have that purpose). have we already evolved past those natural inclinations so much that we can shirk them without losing opportunity costs?

me and my 24 year old backwoods mouth, of course.

that being said, i'm still looking to be a stay at home dad, so if you know any busy, young, women professionals around the college station area, let me know.
 

Sirius

Registered User
men and women are designed and evolved for specific purposes. a grandmother has a specific purpose (look at the tribal peoples... they still have that purpose). have we already evolved past those natural inclinations so much that we can shirk them without losing opportunity costs?

I don't think the baby necessarily goes out with the bath water. Just because one aspect is different doesn't make all of them different. Grandmothers are still important. And so are aunts, uncles, and cousins. What makes you think it changes the whole family dynamic?
 

JTM

"Just in case"
Premium Member
oh, i'm just saying that grandmother's are perfectly suited for helping take care of kids. they have an important role to play in family life.

as does everyone else. i wasn't saying grandmothers were useless. good lord, she'd know and probably shoot me.
 

Wingnut

Premium Member
that being said, i'm still looking to be a stay at home dad, so if you know any busy, young, women professionals around the college station area, let me know.

I believe there are a few down at the Chicken now and then...
 

rhitland

Founding Member
Premium Member
The book of Law could absolutley be placed upon the altar, it might cause a rucuss but what change does not.
As far as gay men in the Lodge HELL YES we let them in without question their experience will make us better men just like everybody elses and that is the name of the game in Masonry. For any Mason to turn his back to light b/c of sexual prefrence is to turn his back to the teachings of Masonry all together. One can have their own opinion on the matter even base that opinion on religious writtings but in the end Love is Love and people are people and if someone wants to better themselves than Masonrry will always have a place for them.

I had never heard of Thelma by the way thanks for the info as I am a huge Alister Crowley fan.
 
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Traveling Man

Premium Member
OK since the taboo subject has been breached... time to lock an load!

If sex practices could be used as a reason to not let a man in, what is everyones thougths on homosexual Masons? Is this an area that raises the same ignorance as does race?

Does this mean we will have to change the ob? ROFL. :D

Note: There's a lot more to read about Thelema, read on dear brethern...:eek:
 

dhouseholder

Registered User
This is all hypothetical of course and the OTO is such a small group the chances of any one here actually running into this is extremely small.
Not as small as you think.

Honestly, the thing that bothers me the most, and this is just a personal moral issue is the fact they practice sex magick.
This is a slippery slope here. What most people think when they see this is, "Orgiastic Rites", or "Orgy at Bob's house, bring the Prayer Book!" when I can tell you this is not the case, you kind of have to look at this in context.

Let us look at the big picture first. To Thelemites, each person has what is known as a Holy Guardian Angel. This Angel is their link between their deepest self and the Divine. The Great Work of most Thelemites is obtaining a conversation with this link usually through the use of meditation, ceremony, and ritual. When all three of these performed together, it is loosely known as magick (notice the "k" to differentiate that between stage magic). Now, this Knowledge and Conversation with your Holy Guardian Angel is necessary for fulfilling one's True Will. (Thelema is Greek for Will) Once this has been achieved, you have made a solid connection with the Divine and extinguished your internal conflicts, sort of like the Buddhist Nirvana. Thelema does nothing to define God or the nature thereof, but instead admonishes one to define that for yourself, not only identify it but reach for it and grasp it.

Now, where does the sex come in? Well it serves two purposes.

First, as you could imagine, obtaining the Knowledge and Conversation with your HGA is pretty difficult. The loss of connection with your material self achieved before and during orgasm is a pretty pure state, it is then when your mind is empty, focused, and purposed and (as I see it) closer to the divine spark that is in us all. If you have a hard time believing this, next time you are "going at it", as you are focusing on the moment, notice that your internal dialogue is shut off. Then start thinking about mundane activities like your drive to work or what you need to get at the grocery store and notice the switch from that focused state to a distracted state. (Which, as stated by someone who posted above, generally a Tantric concept)
Once a Thelemite has cultivated, or at least experienced, this shift, they could probably do it outside of the bedroom and employ it in their "prayers".

Secondly, it serves as an allegory, among other things, for union, which is something all Thelemites strive towards. You know, uniting the polar principles of Male/Female. Now, interestingly enough, there was a big issue over homosexuality and whether or not it could serve as proper allegory for the union of the Self and the Divine. I do not know for sure if this issue was ever resolved, but I know that there were vocal opinions from both sides.

Now, I would like to state that I do not consider myself a Thelemite.

That being said, I do think that any Brother interested in the esoteric portions of our Craft should really do himself a favor and study these paradigms, if for no reason other than so they could enlighten other brothers on internet forums! :biggrin:

Indecently, there is a very large and active OTO in Austin...
http://www.scarletwoman.org/

... and University of Texas' Ransom Center has quite a collection of Crowley artifacts.
http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/research/fa/lfcrowley.html
http://research.hrc.utexas.edu:8080/hrcxtf/view?docId=ead/00144.xml
 

RedTemplar

Johnny Joe Combs
Premium Member
In all the years with my Thelma, I can't recall her ever praying during our "get togethers", but, on at least one or two occasions I have heard her speak in tongues. Now, as a Baptist, is that possible or has she been fooling me all this time?
 
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