Touchy Subject

[lilhancock]

This may not be fully appropriate but I thought I would ask anyway. In masonry, eastern star, shrine, york and scottish rite one of the things that is thought is to love each other. Tolerance and acceptance is key if the person presents the beliefs and character to join one of these fine organizations.

Therefore I ask this: a man or woman petitions the lodge or star and is gay. Do you check your individual beliefs at the door of the lodge/chapter room and base your votes on their character? Or, even in this day and age, do you view that as being in bad character?

I know this is a touchy subject, maybe it is more touchy that recognition of PHA members. I do not mean to offend anyone by any means. But does this issue arise often? I am not looking for "judgements" or "attacks"...merely serious discussion on a very touchy subject. Thank you.

 

[TCShelton]

We've kicked this one around before. Many of us don't have a problem with it, some do. Pretty even split, I think.

 

[scottmh59]

Do you check your individual beliefs at the door of the lodge

yep

 

[Hippie19950]

I kind of take the military approach, "Don't ask, don't tell"... If nothing is imposed on me, I don't concern myself with a person's preference personally.

 

[Blake Bowden]

I kind of take the military approach, "Don't ask, don't tell"... If nothing is imposed on me, I don't concern myself with a person's preference personally.

Agreed. BTW, we love to discuss those "touchy subjects" :21:

 

[rhitland]

I kind of take the military approach, "Don't ask, don't tell"... If nothing is imposed on me, I don't concern myself with a person's preference personally.

I would be fine with this also if we all adhere to this but I hear many all the time myself being one talking of their wifes so if a gay man cannot talk about his partner because you will know he is gay then we need to all keep clues to our sexuality quite. Seeing in my opinion this is impossiable b/c when you love somebody you love them and hiding that love is bad news. We should not make anyone choice between love for another human or Masonry.

 

[ddreader]

if gays want to be masons. maybe they could start their own grand lodge system. and find a great light in masonry for themselves. so when they say ( as the rule and guide to our faith and practice) it will not be a lie. like it would be if they used ours. and then they could meet upon the level and part upon the square. as we do. we should not have to lower our standards. i am not being hateful. i am just making a suggestion. that might help them out. may god bless all of us.

 

[MGM357]

What does it say in the law book?

 

[Bill Lins]

Nothing.

 

[Traveling Man]

Please do not read any more or less into this dialogue:

I make these posits only within the scope of the art of conversation.

As we have approached this very subject before I see that some of members that reject co-masonry feel that there would not be a problem with “mixed gender preference lodges“, aren’t these in theory the same? As an example the idea of don’t ask, don’t tell, defies logic, I believe the same applies here. I’ll attempt to explain; one would no more entertain the idea of having men and women mixed without separate accommodations in a personal environment than to play this idea out to it’s logical conclusion. Just as in reality, there are differences between men and women.

I see that someone here has mentioned the equivalent of an “affinity lodge” just for “them”. I would like to mention that these type of lodges do indeed exist. (Different strokes for different folks). In the same vein there are affinity lodges for the “arts”, “sciences“, “musicians“, “military”, etc. all of these fulfill specific needs for their members. Just some food for thought…

Any ideas?

May peas and hominy prevail…

 

[ddreader]

thank you. for your insight into this touchy subject. i do not hate these people, they are gods children too. and i do not feel like we as masons should have make special exceptions for them. we are not asking to join them, they are asking to join us. and we should not have to change our beliefs, or our organization to meet their standards, they should be more than willing to comply to ours, no matter what type of beliefs they have. and if their beliefs do not allow them the ability to take an obligation on our great light in masonry. with a clear conscience. is that our problem or theirs?

 

[lilhancock]

no one has said anything about their beliefs being different...just who they go home to. I know several God fearing gay men. All I was wondering if you would check your belief of their lifestyle at the door and accept him/her as a brother or sister in the lodge/chapter?

 

[ddreader]

my beliefs are based on my teachings from the holy bible. i will not check that belief at the door. for anybody. for any reason. period. would you?

 

[lilhancock]

my beliefs are based on my teachings from the holy bible. i will not check that belief at the door. for anybody. for any reason. period. would you?

My beliefs teach tolerance. If they represent the qualities to be a member then who they go home to is none of my business. If I personal choose to be uncomfortable with it then that's on me...but they are my brother or sister none the less.

 

[ddreader]

just trying to respond to the topic at hand. i know that we all are different, and that we can respectfully agree to disagree as brothers. as i stated before we are all gods children. i do not hate them, i myself know some of them, and they are good people. and i have, and will continue to welcome them as friends. now then with all due respect i would not ask them to check their beliefs at the door, if they were to enter my lodge. nor should they expect the same from me. my belief teaches tolerance also. and i am very good at it. but at what point do we go from tolerance. to submission? i have no problem turning the other cheek. but i will not turn my back on what makes me who i am. our what i believe. nor should they have to either. we are all gods children and we will answer for or beliefs one day. i hope i have respectively answered your question.

 

[Blake Bowden]

Sexual orientation should be left at the door just as religion and politics.

 

[Nate C.]

In my opinion, what happens in a person's bedroom between consenting adults is their own personal business and should remain that way. How that person reconciles his conduct within the parameters of the scripture is his own burden to bear. We don't come down too hard on brethren who are unmarried and 'shacked up', or who have gotten divorced, and I believe the VSL speaks to those issues as well.

That's just my opinion, which in the past has proven to not get me invited back to a lot of places.

Now, co-masonry, that's a whole 'nother can of worms...

 

[rhitland]

I think the discussion got a little off topic with the assumption we have to check our religious beliefs at the door which could not be further from the truth. Fact of the matter that is what lead you to Masonry. I took the question to be if a gay man of woman was talking about their problems at home with their partner or gave any clue they where gay would that be a problem for you. You can believe someone is in the wrong on their decision but can you still treat them like a Brother? Can you dwell with them in unity for the better of Masonry never allowing their lifestyle to be a problem? Can you in believe being gay is a sin and allow them the same right to believe it is not?

 

[rhitland]

Sexual orientation should be left at the door just as religion and politics.

Brother Blake that is much easier said than done. I am talking Lodge only here but to exclude your sexual orientation from lodge would be dang near imposable. This means both parties would have to submit to this rule otherwise someone who is quite about their orientation would be known to be gay. My orientation was given away on the petition when I was asked if I was married.

 

[ljlinson1206]

I kind of take the military approach, "Don't ask, don't tell"... If nothing is imposed on me, I don't concern myself with a person's preference personally.

I have thought about this subject and must say that I agree with several Brothers in here about don't ask, don't tell. That being said I can also say that i believe a persons sexuality is a matter of prefference, just like the use of tobacco or alcohol. Now, I understand I will get much opposition for my opinion on this matter but it is just that, MY OPINION.

I am not going to judge someone for thier own sexual preference nor am I going to look down upon someone for it. I do not believe in it and I am not going to practice it. The word of My God said it is wrong and therefore I must follow the path of my conviction, but My God also said "Judge not lest ye be judges". If a man, or woman, choses to be with one of thier own, then he/she will have to stand before God on the day of judgment and reep what they have sewn.

And that's all I have to say about that.