Visitation between A.F.&A.M and F&A.M

Discussion in 'Freemasonry In Texas' started by Jorge Rojas Jr, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. tldubb

    tldubb Premium Member

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    FYI I was referring to Bro. Goldsquare post, and also you have to affiliated with the PH Grand Lodge or "mainstream" lodge that is affiliated with MWPHGL of MA.
     
  2. tldubb

    tldubb Premium Member

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    Anything else you need to explain about what I posted?
     
  3. goldsquare

    goldsquare Registered User

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    Thank you Bro. Hill and tldubb.
     
  4. EQNUPE

    EQNUPE Registered User

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    As far as recognition and visitation, in my humble opinion, we all know there is an elephant in the room. My question is which is more important, peace and harmony, or ACTUALLY living certain Obligations taken? And if we don't do everything within our individual strength, are we not part of the problem, as a mere bystander?
     
  5. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    What is more important, inhaling or exhaling? Try doing only one.
     
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  6. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    I can think of two.

    First brothers tend think it is the responsibility of the grand line not of the brethren. Our order has a bicameral system. The grand line executes policies set by legislation. The delegates at grand lodge submit and vote upon legislation. While I'd like the grand line to be proactive on topics that interest me they generally aren't.

    Look up your jurisdiction's process for legislation and see what steps you would need to take to submit legislation without waiting on the grand line. Find out who your lodge's voting delegates are. Seriously consider going through the line so that you are one of the brothers who can sign and submit - I'm a PM in 2 of my 3 jurisdictions so I can submit in 2 of my 3 jurisdictions. In the third I have to convince at least 1 PM. I say we on the ground need to get past the idea that someone else in our own jurisdiction needs to do it.

    Second brothers tend to think it is the responsibility of other jurisdictions - We're the senior jurisdiction so they should ask. Won't that be a problem with other jurisdictions. I say we on the ground need to get past the idea that other jurisdictions matter when it comes to recognition. One idea I say we need to get past is worrying that any one granting of recognition be mutual. Take the moral high ground proactively and let other jurisdictions be reactive.

    Some jurisdictions have recognition come to vote every few years. Some jurisdictions just wait. Failing a vote isn't my problem; failing to work on legislation that comes to a vote is my problem - That's the elephant I see in the room. Elephants travel in herds, which one do you see?
     
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  7. EQNUPE

    EQNUPE Registered User

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    That analogy doesn't quite fit the context of my question. A better one would be, if you are a smoker, would you like the truth, that is uncomfortable, but for your greater health? Or not have that conversation, because smoking is what you have always done?
    Self destructive behaviors must be confronted head on...
     
  8. EQNUPE

    EQNUPE Registered User

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    I appreciate that education good Brother. You gave me a lot to think on. I have plans on doing just that. I'm also an advocate of grassroots, out of the box approaches. What is stopping these different brothers from say, meeting in a park, and having some non-Masonic, honest conversations? Voluntary attendance, where men can meet on level, and gain insight, empathy, and understanding? I mean that is kinda what "brotherhood" is about right? Too radical? Maybe so....
     
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  9. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Which obligation do you think governs this?
     
  10. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    Doing what you know to be right trumps all else. Peace and harmony comes from how one goes about doing what is right.
     
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  11. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    The recognition thing that really gets me is my patent/certificate says TO ALL FREE AND EXCEPTED MASONS ON THE FACE OF THE GLOBE not just Florida jurisdiction??? But what do I know I'm a new M.M.
     
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  12. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    And I could make up a group that hands out little certificates proclaiming every member a Senator of the United States of America. Doesn't make it truth.
     
  13. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    So this would lead me to believe that you agree with being challenged or challenging someone to prove that one is a worthy and well qualified brother mason ? If I am wrong please correct me because you're saying a dues called or patent is not sufficient because they can be forged , how would you go about inspecting a potential brother not knowing him to be such?
     
  14. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    I also have a question for the brethren here what is the benefit of having mutual recognition but not visitation how far does this recognition go , I can recognize you and call you brother but I can't sit with you in a tiled meeting and pursue the beautiful light of masonry beside my brother? That's kind of like kissing your sister in my opinion
     
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  15. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    It's very simple: If you want to visit, go through channels. That's what lodge secretaries are for. That makes any personal challenge simply pro forma.
     
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  16. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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  17. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    A piece of paper is, in the end, just a piece of paper, no matter how fancy.
     
  18. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    That's right we're all here to serve fish dinners and cut grass .... Whoops I told a secret across the board
     
    EQNUPE likes this.
  19. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I'm in the same boat as you, I was raised 8/4/14. We here in Kentucky have recognition between PH and AF&M but no visitation. Does not make sense to me.
     
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  20. EQNUPE

    EQNUPE Registered User

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    Within a regularly constituted lodge....
     

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