We Can't Afford to Wait

[drapetomaniac]

easy. let the scottish rite children's hospital, the shriner's hospitals, other not for profit hospitals, state hospitals, county hospitals, for profit hospitals, doctors, and families decide what is best for the situation and let them implement it.

this idea that the federal govt has to be involved at all is outrageous. get them OUT.

The answer is Do Nothing? How about this - is there anything to do to increase the nonprofit presence or county hospitals, etc? This was actually one of the plans on the table, but the general cry is all reform is evil. Every nonprofit facility I know of is suffering right now, not growing.

We have millions of working poor without insurance, and even middle class who have been worked out of the system for pre-existing conditions. The only solution to that is "leave em be?"

Expanding nonprofits was on the table
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-deba...eigh-in-on-nonprofit-healthcare-cooperatives/

This is the cultural difference I think we both mentioned earlier. Some nations are ok with the community chipping in when they can and helping each other stay healthy and fed. Ours is not.

I think in many instances because they actively participate and define instead of just protest, they may not see their community programs as "them."

How many Shriners hospitals do you think there will be in 10 years compared to now?

 

[drapetomaniac]

You seem to think that they aren't rich for a reason and won't get their money back. You'll still be paying for it, and if you couldn't afford it before, being forced to pay for it later will mean the money comes from somewhere. Probably another area of your life you aren't willing to give up.

You seem to be ok with the vast income disparity in this country, achieved by the wealthy helping the wealthy? Leave the rich alone or they'll punish you?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html

 

[JTM]

The answer is Do Nothing? How about this - is there anything to do to increase the nonprofit presence or county hospitals, etc? This was actually one of the plans on the table, but the general cry is all reform is evil. Every nonprofit facility I know of is suffering right now, not growing.

We have millions of working poor without insurance, and even middle class who have been worked out of the system for pre-existing conditions. The only solution to that is "leave em be?"

Expanding nonprofits was on the table
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-deba...eigh-in-on-nonprofit-healthcare-cooperatives/

This is the cultural difference I think we both mentioned earlier. Some nations are ok with the community chipping in when they can and helping each other stay healthy and fed. Ours is not.

I think in many instances because they actively participate and define instead of just protest, they may not see their community programs as "them."

How many Shriners hospitals do you think there will be in 10 years compared to now?

how many? probably none, if obama had his way. the best hospitals in the world would actually be gone.

as for the first part, "do nothing?"

this is wrong. in fact, your solution is the "do nothing" answer. "let government take care of it for you." my solution is the "do everything" answer. i will take care of my health, not pawn it off onto someone else.

Some nations are ok with the community chipping in when they can and helping each other stay healthy and fed. Ours is not.

this is so bogus. you call it "chipping in when they can." i call it stealing 10% of someone's hard earned money on a regular basis wether they "can" or not.

 

[JTM]

You seem to be ok with the vast income disparity in this country, achieved by the wealthy helping the wealthy? Leave the rich alone or they'll punish you?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html

they aren't punishing you. you are demanding more services and they are making you pay for it. isn't that fair?

and guess what? as government gets larger and larger, the income gap is widening and thinning in the middle. so you want more and larger government? you'll just be pushing that income gap wider.

 

[drapetomaniac]

they aren't punishing you. you are demanding more services and they are making you pay for it. isn't that fair?

and guess what? as government gets larger and larger, the income gap is widening and thinning in the middle. so you want more and larger government? you'll just be pushing that income gap wider.

The income inequality starts out by funneling all the wealth to the top of the food chain. Is that process fair?

 

[JTM]

who funnels the wealth to the top? government. and you want more government.

who allows for them to "punish" us for making them pay more taxes? government. and you want more government.

 

[drapetomaniac]

how many? probably none, if obama had his way. the best hospitals in the world would actually be gone.

as for the first part, "do nothing?"

this is wrong. in fact, your solution is the "do nothing" answer. "let government take care of it for you." my solution is the "do everything" answer. i will take care of my health, not pawn it off onto someone else.

What is your suggested solution to increasing health access for Americans?

this is so bogus. you call it "chipping in when they can." i call it stealing 10% of someone's hard earned money on a regular basis wether they "can" or not.

Like I said cultural differences. It takes a village to raise a child versus get the urchin out of my site.

 

[JTM]

What is your suggested solution to increasing health access for Americans?



Like I said cultural differences. It takes a village to raise a child versus get the urchin out of my site.

my suggested solution? good lord, i've put my suggested solution up 3-4 times in this thread already. let me take care of my healthcare, and get out of my business. that is my solution! i'm beginning to assume that you don't even read my posts. me, my family, my doctor, my church, my friends, my community, the organizations i'm in, and any insurance i want to purchase will be involved in my decisions... not some politician in D.C.

and i completely agree that it takes a village to raise a child... nobody ever says, "it takes a government to raise a child"



more from before:

what you are saying to me is that "Because the rich have all the money, and the income gap is widening, let's go get our pitchforks and take it back!!"

and then you take the moral high road and call it "chipping in when they can" and other bogus catchphrases that make me look like an insensitive jerk that's trying to steal from other people.

 

[drapetomaniac]

who funnels the wealth to the top? government. and you want more government.

who allows for them to "punish" us for making them pay more taxes? government. and you want more government.

The government isn't handing out bonuses and hasn't been on a regular basis - that *are not* based on performance. It doesn't pay wildly out of scale regardless of performance.

Everyone if focus on "theft from the rich" but ignores their theft from stockholders and workers that gave them their insanely lopsided wealth.

 

[JTM]

i'm sorry, what? if you find theft from stockholders anywhere, you are welcome to bring them before a judge.

again, i'm sorry, what? government jobs are the easiest and laziest of jobs out there. productivity amongst government jobs is the lowest. government jobs promote laziness.

i've seen this in action: finishing a contracting job with the government ahead of time and under-budget is a mark AGAINST you. next time you won't get as much time or as much money... "you didn't need it the first time." the better idea is to just go slow and do a crappy job... then you can claim you weren't given enough money and it wasn't your fault.

 

[drapetomaniac]

my suggested solution? good lord, i've put my suggested solution up 3-4 times in this thread already. let me take care of my healthcare, and get out of my business. that is my solution! i'm beginning to assume that you don't even read my posts. me, my family, my doctor, my church, my friends, my community, the organizations i'm in, and any insurance i want to purchase

Well you're insured. That's not my question and hasn't been. There are hard working people who can't afford insurance or access to health care and a growing number of children - and people who are just cut out of access because they got sick at the wrong time.

What about them? I have health insurance too, a pretty good plan. I wouldn't mine being left alone (of course I wouldn't mind helping others as I have been helped in the past) - but I would like to see the richest country in the world have a better longevity, infant mortality and health rates in general. I'd like to see my fellow citizens healthier than they are and less afraid to get sick in this country.

Leaving them alone isn't working. And especially in youth, a sick youth typically means a less healthy adulthood which comes back to haunt us all.

 

[JTM]

there are a ton of county hospitals, free clinics, etc. there would be a lot more if the federal government got out of this business. and that's my solution: get the federal government out, allow for a return of the strength that is the private, not for profit hospital and clinic.

if you would like to see your fellow citizens healthier than they are now, then go help them. work with them on a diet and perhaps help pay for their medications. a) we'll see how interested they are in that kind of thing and b) how incredibly effective it is.

as it is now with this government handout crap, check out how many people get appointments at hospitals from the government and don't even bother showing up.

 

[drapetomaniac]

again, i'm sorry, what? government jobs are the easiest and laziest of jobs out there. productivity amongst government jobs is the lowest. government jobs promote laziness.
...
i've seen this in action: finishing a contracting job with the government ahead of time and under-budget is a mark AGAINST you. next time you won't get as much time or as much money... "you didn't need it the first time." the better idea is to just go slow and do a crappy job... then you can claim you weren't given enough money and it wasn't your fault.

So what makes our American government inherently incapable of productivity or reform in productivity?

 

[drapetomaniac]

there are a ton of county hospitals, free clinics, etc. there would be a lot more if the federal government got out of this business. and that's my solution: get the federal government out, allow for a return of the strength that is the private, not for profit hospital and clinic.

What is the government doing right now to prevent the presence of community hospitals and health clinics? (Ignoring for a moment how many get federal and state grants for operations).

You speak of a "return" - when was that golden era of near universal coverage or access to health for Americans?

as it is now with this government handout crap, check out how many people get appointments at hospitals from the government and don't even bother showing up.

So - they don't want coverage?

 

[JTM]

So what makes our American government inherently incapable of productivity or reform in productivity?

i thought i gave the example:

i've seen this in action: finishing a contracting job with the government ahead of time and under-budget is a mark AGAINST you. next time you won't get as much time or as much money... "you didn't need it the first time." the better idea is to just go slow and do a crappy job... then you can claim you weren't given enough money and it wasn't your fault.

 

[JTM]

What is the government doing right now to prevent the presence of community hospitals and health clinics? (Ignoring for a moment how many get federal and state grants for operations).

You speak of a "return" - when was that golden era of near universal coverage or access to health for Americans?

http://www.wusa9.com/money/story.aspx?storyid=88915&catid=37

these lists go on and on, dude. the larger government gets, the more impossible it is for a charity to survive.

and they do it in several ways... including money that was going to charities going to new taxes, inflation and rising costs making it impossible to do things for free nowadays... a myriad ways.

So - they don't want coverage?

i have no idea. i know it's anecdotal, but i have several nurse/pharmacist/doctor buddies that talk about the hatred they have for serving medicaid patients. one D.O. that i know won't accept medicaid payments anymore... he just treats them for free and tells them he'll bill medicaid.

 

[JTM]

The golden age of charities: 1870-1890s.

http://www.studentnewsdaily.com/news-issue/giving-that-worked/

 

[drapetomaniac]

i thought i gave the example:

So, if we change that? Would that help efficiency or increase waste? If we ended this - would government run faster?

 

[drapetomaniac]

The golden age of charities: 1870-1890s.

http://www.studentnewsdaily.com/news-issue/giving-that-worked/

I didn't see health coverage or access mentioned? Was that the era every American who needed to coud see a doctor?

 

[JTM]

I didn't see health coverage or access mentioned? Was that the era every American who needed to coud see a doctor?

if they paid for it, sure.