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GLs that dont recognize PHA

Mindovermatter Ace

Registered User
I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarity. I won't hesitate to share the information you've given me when brothers include the jurisdiction of Kentucky in these types of discussions.


Aaron Christopher
Cervantes #5
Grand Lodge of Louisiana F&AM
 

CLewey44

Registered User
Prince Hall Masonry is older than my country. I have no wish to lose that fine heritage by assimilation.

Then again if I'm in attendance in one of the jurisdictions where I hold vote and the local PHA jurisdiction offered unification it is highly likely I would vote in favor. The direction of such a proposal matters.

As I said earlier in the forum, I think it'd be an excellent appendant body or extra degree maybe. I don't think it should go away but the reason behind it is the problem, segregate. And it's still alive and well in some states unfortunately.

I think too, it'd help dwindling lodge attendance possibly. We'd be less spaced out and so fourth. Some PHA lodges share the same lodge as a non-PHA lodge which I find strange. You're both there for the same reason but segregate yourselves for no particular reason on different nights of the month. Why?
 

CLewey44

Registered User
Well here's an article from this site discussing a black Master as well as comments from another black brother who indicates that he has visited numerous lodges within Kentucky.

http://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/first-black-master-in-kentucky.20858/

That's good. However, I wonder what the KY GL books say. I speculate the lodges visited were just being cordial. Which is good. At the very least they're trying. Again, I don't know what the GL laws say so I could be way off here.
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
That's good. However, I wonder what the KY GL books say. I speculate the lodges visited were just being cordial. Which is good. At the very least they're trying. Again, I don't know what the GL laws say so I could be way off here.
Well, I'd have to dig out the documents that I have to be sure, but if a black man was installed as Kentucky WM, I can't imagine there's an issue on the books.
 

Mindovermatter Ace

Registered User
As far as the south goes, from what I know, Alabama has one black card holder and one newly initiated EA. Georgia has one, and Louisiana has maybe five or six including myself. Yes racism still exist here within the jurisdiction. The lodge I joined is called "the Prince Hall lodge" by racist masons in northern Louisiana. I don't know about FL, TX etc. but I have heard about instances in territories that share mutual recognition, where lodges have refused black masons from entering the lodge. You don't hear about things like this unless it makes the news or something.

A brother who is a member of the GLoNY now, left the Prince Hall jurisdiction because his old lodge refused to initiate a Caucasian guy.

Also in Louisiana it's not the GLoLA who has refused mutual amity but the Prince Hall Grand Lodge.

Racism exist on both sides, sad to say. Ironic we can united men of different faiths but not men of different ethnic backgrounds. One day We shall overcome this adversity. God willing.


Aaron Christopher
Cervantes #5
Grand Lodge of Louisiana F&AM
 

Mindovermatter Ace

Registered User
As I said earlier in the forum, I think it'd be an excellent appendant body or extra degree maybe. I don't think it should go away but the reason behind it is the problem, segregate. And it's still alive and well in some states unfortunately.

I think too, it'd help dwindling lodge attendance possibly. We'd be less spaced out and so fourth. Some PHA lodges share the same lodge as a non-PHA lodge which I find strange. You're both there for the same reason but segregate yourselves for no particular reason on different nights of the month. Why?



I agree. Why rent your building out to people you don't recognize as masons? It makes those who aren't perceive themselves as being the same and makes it appear as if they accept them as masons.

Personally I don't agree with that or healing.


Aaron Christopher
Cervantes #5
Grand Lodge of Louisiana F&AM
 

CLewey44

Registered User
I agree. Why rent your building out to people you don't recognize as masons? It makes those who aren't perceive themselves as being the same and makes it appear as if they accept them as masons.

Personally I don't agree with that or healing.


Aaron Christopher
Cervantes #5
Grand Lodge of Louisiana F&AM

This stuff can't be fixed unless it's talked about. Time to get rid of these unnecessary things. I would start by inviting all PHA members to visit a local non-PHA lodge and get acquainted and talk about these things. Let's get on the level here for real. Both GLs should be discussing this all of the time. Do a statewide vote maybe. Counting each vote from both PHA and non-PHA Blue Lodges in favor of coming together or not. Each secretary should present some correspondence from the GLs' on why it should be this way. No need for separation anymore.
 

Mindovermatter Ace

Registered User
I am sure there are places in your grand lodge as well. We have full amity here in Texas. That doesn't mean that you won't encounter racism in some places.
This stuff can't be fixed unless it's talked about. Time to get rid of these unnecessary things. I would start by inviting all PHA members to visit a local non-PHA lodge and get acquainted and talk about these things. Let's get on the level here for real. Both GLs should be discussing this all of the time. Do a statewide vote maybe. Counting each vote from both PHA and non-PHA Blue Lodges in favor of coming together or not. Each secretary should present some correspondence from the GLs' on why it should be this way. No need for separation anymore.


I agree wholeheartedly. We can't resolve issues we refuse to address.
 

MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard
Premium Member

Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
Racism is very prevalent in Freemasonry in the south. Always has been. I started a new job today, and as I was working I noticed my Co worker had a Masonic emblem on his belt. I then asked if he was a mason, he said yes. As I tried to talk with him, he shunned me, but turned around and started talking about freemasonry with a "white" gentleman that wasn't even a brother. Ask me how I know if the other gentleman wasn't a mason, because I asked.
 
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Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
This issue is so out of hand, when I do meet a GL brother that does not share the majorities view on race relations, it shocks me and throws me for a loop.
 
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Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
Truth be told, there are black men that joined PHA GL'S because that is the only option they had other than joining a bogus masonic organization because the GL in that state refuses to admit black man. The GL of GA threatened to pull the charter of one of their subordinate lodges because they admitted a black man. As I referenced in a previous post. The reasoning, because they violated one of the Ancient Land Marks. What ancient landmark was violated by entering a black man ?
 
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alterian

Registered User
When I attempted to petition in Texas I was welcomed. I arrived before a stated meeting, I talked to a couple men, they gave me a tour, talked to me about membership, it was a good experience. I attempted to petition a MS lodge in GA and it wasn’t the same here. It felt like I wasn’t there, like I was being ignored. I went to 2 different lodges and it felt the same for both. I felt very welcomed at a PHA lodge. They talked to more in the half hour I spent with them then the combined 2 hours at the other lodges. Could it have been because of my race/heritage, possibly, I’d like to think it’s just the way the brothers are. I was told to stay away from PHA lodges. That made me think, why tell me that, ignore me and make me feel unwelcomed when I visit.

I’m glade I was accepted into a lodge, MS and PHA are the same to me. I hope that when I run into someone and they ask which lodge I’m from they don’t look down on me for being PHA. I would accept any brother be it MS or PHA. Hopefully one day all MS brothers will do so in return.

I didn’t mean any of this in any negative way, just stating my story. I’m sure the lodges I went to have some great brother, the shoe just didn’t fit the foot.

What’s the current status on recognition from those GL’S, who has requested recognition and who hasn’t? I know some times it can be PHA GL that don’t request/want it which is why I want to know who has (if it can be discussed on here)
 

MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard
Premium Member
I visited a PHA lodge tonight for the first time with a lodge brother and two other brothers from the GLOT. It was a great experience. They do things differently.

They gave us trowels engraved with their lodge name. Working tools.
 

MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard
Premium Member
Truth be told, there are black men that joined PHA GL'S because that is the only option they had other than joining a bogus masonic organization because the GL in that state refuses to admit black man. The GL of GA threatened to pull the charter of one of their subordinate lodges because they admitted a black man. As I referenced in a previous post. The reasoning, because they violated one of the Ancient Land Marks. What ancient landmark was violated by entering a black man ?

Remember, they are a sovereign grand lodge. Also, the man eventually became WM of that lodge. It is not easy to be the Jackie Robinson of anything but a true bridge builder does it for the ones that will follow him.

The Bridge Builder

BY WILL ALLEN DROMGOOLE

An old man going a lone highway,
Came, at the evening cold and gray,
To a chasm vast and deep and wide.
Through which was flowing a sullen tide
The old man crossed in the twilight dim,
The sullen stream had no fear for him;
But he turned when safe on the other side
And built a bridge to span the tide.

“Old man,” said a fellow pilgrim near,
“You are wasting your strength with building here;
Your journey will end with the ending day,
You never again will pass this way;
You’ve crossed the chasm, deep and wide,
Why build this bridge at evening tide?”

The builder lifted his old gray head;
“Good friend, in the path I have come,” he said,
“There followed after me to-day
A youth whose feet must pass this way.
This chasm that has been as naught to me
To that fair-haired youth may a pitfall be;
He, too, must cross in the twilight dim;
Good friend, I am building this bridge for him!”
 
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MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard
Premium Member
Also in Louisiana it's not the GLoLA who has refused mutual amity but the Prince Hall Grand Lodge.

Well, maybe you can clear this up. One member that used to post here stated that the Grand Lodge of Louisiana considers PHA clandestine and it would take a constitutional amendment to change that.
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
Well, maybe you can clear this up. One member that used to post here stated that the Grand Lodge of Louisiana considers PHA clandestine and it would take a constitutional amendment to change that.
I can't speak for LA, but my mother lodge is in Kentucky and I move away from KY prior to any form of recognition between mainstream and Prince Hall, so I can speak to that.

At that time, yes, Prince Hall was considered Clandestine, although I think most brothers would simply use the term 'unrecognized' out of respect. The issue (as it has been communicated to me) was that both the mainstream Grand Lodge of Kentucky and the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Kentucky (I apologize if I'm not using the correct terms) both considered themselves sovereign. Therefore, for either of them to request recognition from the other would be seen as a sign of inferiority. Sort of like saying 'if I have to ask you for your permission to be a Mason, you must have authority over me'. Both sides saw it as a case of 'if they want to be recognized by us, fine, but they have to come ask us'. Well, with both sides taking that stance, there was never going to be mutual recognition. Obviously, SOMETHING has changed as there is now recognition (albeit without visitation for the time) but I don't know the exact mechanics of how that happened.

Going back to my previous statements here, sadly, Kentucky does have racist Masons within some of their/our lodges. That being said, my experience is that this is a very small percentage. I think that for many years, the attitude wasn't one of active rejection, but simply 'they don't need us and we don't need them' in terms of Prince Hall. The older generations, even if not racist, were just fine with that stance. The younger generations disagree and are actively working towards bringing the two together, but it's a slow process. My understanding is that the decision to not have visitation was designed as a temporary measure, and, unfortunate as it might be, I think it's for the best to avoid rocking the boat too quickly.
 

MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard
Premium Member
The senior grand lodge has to consent or waive jurisdiction for the UGLE to grant recognition. @Glen Cook could explain it better. But each grand lodge is sovereign, that is correct. It appears that the grand lodges in Oklahoma are in full amity, yet the PHA grand lodge has not taken the extra step need to get full recognition from the UGLE. It should be merely a formality.
 
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