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What do you tell the Anti Freemason?

peace out

Premium Member
As an added thought, I quickly find how much respect my family and peers give me when Masonry is questioned. When they tell me something anti-mason they heard, and I then discredit it, I look for their reaction. If they trust my point of view, then I know I have their respect and the conversation can continue. If they won't believe what I say, then there is no point talking with them further about it. Why argue with the profane?

Note, this really only applies to those you have close relationships with.
 

VinnyC

Registered User
I am not a Mason just yet. But there are a few times I lay the subject about Freemasons just to try to start a conversation. There are some that ask if I know anyone and If I am one. I tell them I know a few and that I am not...just yet. Then there are the ones that talk negative about it. Since I am not a Mason, I just let them know that I don't think that it's a cult, illuminati or devil worshipers. I just tell them that the Freemasons that I know of are cool dudes and I respect them. Also that I do not find them to be devilish. I would also get the question by them, why? I tell them that I want to be part of the New World Order in the future when WWIII happens. I get a few chuckles...then the subject changes. LOL.
 

Hndrx

Premium Member
At one time, I was told a lot of "info" by anti-mason's and didn't have any counter information to compare to. It took a lot of years for me to realize that original info was incorrect. In my case, it would have been far more helpful for me if more Mason's had been advocating for the group. (It took a lot of active research on my part to learn that those original accusations were false. I started my research because I could never reconcile the anti-claims versus the nature of many men that I knew to be Masons.)
 

Dave in Waco

Premium Member
If you really want to get to an Anti-Mason, tell them to prove their claims. In America, we are innocent until proven guilty. So tell them until they can offer proof contray to the actions you've witnessed by Masons, as far as you are concerned they are just bearing falsewitness against their neighbor.
 

bgs942

Premium Member
I always say no matter what you may have read in a Dan Brown novel or seen on the Discovery Channel, Masons do not want to take over the world we just want to make it a better place.
 

Hndrx

Premium Member
If you really want to get to an Anti-Mason, tell them to prove their claims. In America, we are innocent until proven guilty. So tell them until they can offer proof contray to the actions you've witnessed by Masons, as far as you are concerned they are just bearing falsewitness against their neighbor.

I'm going to have to remember that one.
 

Bro. Stewart P.M.

Lead Moderator Emeritus
Staff Member
I always say no matter what you may have read in a Dan Brown novel or seen on the Discovery Channel, Masons do not want to take over the world we just want to make it a better place.

Well there you go. Now, I JUST finished up re-polishing the Cup of Christ and put it next to the Ark of the Covenant. Now what am I supposed to do until the next meeting at Bohemian Grove????
 

Bro. Stewart P.M.

Lead Moderator Emeritus
Staff Member
Speaking of Bohemian Grove, who's bringing the marshmallows this year?

I am supposed to, but the 12 kegs of Shiner that were ordered are going to take up my entire truck. Do you think that you can pick some up on your way? I have the latest drawings for the next scheme... just look for the Hillbilly's Group!
 

Dave in Waco

Premium Member
I am supposed to, but the 12 kegs of Shiner that were ordered are going to take up my entire truck. Do you think that you can pick some up on your way? I have the latest drawings for the next scheme... just look for the Hillbilly's Group!

12 kegs? What about the rest of us?
 

JohnnyFlotsam

Premium Member
Isaiah 32:11 says: Shudder, you complacent ones; Tremble, you overconfident ones!
To this I say, stop allowing the world to look at our fraternity in the manner they do now as evil, yet we should stand United and show thru our Brotherly Love and Compasion, that we are truly a Good and Obedient Body of Believers that shall prevale in our actions....
"Prevail"? At what?

I'm not sure that "obedient believer" is quite the image we want to project for those who have been convinced that we are the spawn of Satan himself. Leaning on religion to disabuse another of his religious beliefs, however misguided, is almost guaranteed to be futile, and may well reinforce the whole "us vs them" mindset that is the goal of those who see Freemasonry as a threat.

Not that we need disavow our own individual beliefs. Far from it, but we should be highlighting the fact that despite our many different and deeply held beliefs, we have learned that not only can we respect each other but we can also celebrate and encourage our Brothers as they follow their respective spiritual paths. If we're going to bring religion into a discussion with anti-Masons that is the message that the anti-Mason needs to hear.
 

Benton

Premium Member
It's also interesting when the argument against Freemasonry is that we don't acknowledge any particular belief system as being higher than another, leaving each person to decide their own path. That's a tricky situation, simply because I've heard that criticism as an argument against us, and it's true. (Or ought to be.) Some people do believe it's wrong to belong to an organization that isn't strictly Christian, etc, regardless of how silly that argument is.
 

Bro. Stewart P.M.

Lead Moderator Emeritus
Staff Member
12 kegs? What about the rest of us?

I was hoping that I was not the only Hillbilly from Texas transporting frosty beverages....
beer.gif
 

jwardl

Registered User
It's also interesting when the argument against Freemasonry is that we don't acknowledge any particular belief system as being higher than another, leaving each person to decide their own path. That's a tricky situation, simply because I've heard that criticism as an argument against us, and it's true. (Or ought to be.) Some people do believe it's wrong to belong to an organization that isn't strictly Christian, etc, regardless of how silly that argument is.

True... that is the view of some. However, it is not our job to proselytize or discuss the pros and cons of one belief system over another. This is not a denial of any faith, rather, it's just not the purpose of our assemblage.
 

Benton

Premium Member
True... that is the view of some. However, it is not our job to proselytize or discuss the pros and cons of one belief system over another. This is not a denial of any faith, rather, it's just not the purpose of our assemblage.

Well, you and I both know this, but there are many non Masons who don't understand, or refuse to understand. I've certainly heard Christians make the claim that because we'll put the Bible on the same alter as other holy books, we are inherently disrespecting Christianity as the one true faith. While I have heard other faiths say this, I'm sure there are those out there of other faiths that would make the same criticism. I'm simply not around them, being in the Bible belt. However, I would there are, in the middle east, Muslims who would take offense to the Bible being on the same station as the Quran.

And to those people, we will never have a satisfactory answer, as our sheer refusal to elevate one religion over another is offensive. In the states it'll mostly be fundamentalist Christians that make that claim, and I'm sure it'd be other groups elsewhere in the world.
 

fairmanjd

Registered User
Hey now... ;-) ... I happen to be a fundamentalist Christian. What I would like to know is when and how Masonry became incompatible with Christianity in the eyes of so many. This has to be somewhat modern... at least the current level of hostility must be somewhat modern. I am only 33; and when I was a little one, most of the strong, Christian men I knew had ties to Masonry, KofC, Elks, etc. Unless I'm mistaken, many Baptist ministers were active in the Lodge. Our church (though admittedly one of the few around here that does this) has absolutely no problems with Freemasonry.
Did any of the older members of the forum here notice a sudden increase over the past couple of decades?
As I said, I consider myself a fundamental Christian; however I feel as if that ideal has been hijacked by a very vocal minority that is slowly becoming a majority.
 
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Benton

Premium Member
I suppose it depends on how you define 'fundamentalist'. It can mean a lot of different things to different people, and I apologize if the assumptions placed behind my usage of the word were offensive. No offense was intended.

For the record, I consider myself a non-denominational Christian. I don't feel that there is anything incompatible between Christianity and Freemasonry, in fact I find the two quite linked, despite our nonsectarian stance. But try telling that to my girlfriend's mother. She's definitely of the, "They allow non Christians in, therefore it's a bad organization," mindset, from what I've seen. Wonderful woman, very kind and caring, but boy you can't change her mind on the issue of the Craft. It's made up already, and it's definitely not in the favor of Masons. So when I visit my gf's family, we simply don't talk about it.

I doubt the hostility is modern. I think the age of technology has simply made communication of these hostilities by a vocal minority easier, and it's easier for that minority to inflate their voice, so to speak. The internet is a powerful tool.
 

waylonivie

Premium Member
I just smile.

You can answer however you like, but never suffer your zeal for the institution to lead you into argument with those who, through ignorance, may ridicule it.
 

Beathard

Premium Member
Arguing just makes them think they are correct. Remember you cannot teach an idiot much. It is very difficult to prove they are wrong without having them sit in lodge.

The most important thing to remember about these people is: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't put a saddle on a duck.
 

fairmanjd

Registered User
Certainly no offense taken by me Benton. I'm just curious as to the mindset of some of those who consider themselves fundamental Christian. Before I say what I'm about to, let me preface it by saying that this is not an attempt to proselytize or force my beliefs on others. If any disagree, that's fine; every man has the inherent, earthly right to his own belief in God. As a fundamental Christian, I believe in God; I believe in a divine inspiration and literal interpretAtion of the Holy Bible as his Word; I believe Jesus Christ is his son and was God incarnate; I believe He died, rose again, and is the Way to salvation and the Father.
Now then.... I have yet to be initiated; thus I admit significant ignorance; but nothing credible that I have read of Freemasonry conflicts or goes against any of those principles. And I find it very hard to believe that I will find anything that doesn't square with these beliefs if I am fortunate enough to be initiated due to the number of Christian men I have known who were active Masons. They were/are of a caliber that would not associate themselves with any group or agency that went against Christ.
I know.... I know.... I'm preaching to the choir here(no pun intended). But it's 11:00pm; and I can't sleep... what else have I got to do?
 
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