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Touchy Subject

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Sirius

Sirius

Registered User
rhitland said:
Now if we are talking malicious in your face sexual behavior that would not be tolerated by no one in my lodge straight or gay.
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We have gays in Lodge?
=====================

To those that say:
"God doesn't approve of gays"

&

"marriage is between a man and a woman"

I have the following questions:

Who is bold enough to claim to know the mind of God?


If a man and a man say they are married how does this affect a straight marriage? Does a man love his wife a little less because in the house across the street there are two men on the couch watching NCIS?
 
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Traveling Man

Traveling Man

Premium Member
Sirius said:
Who is bold enough to claim to know the mind of God?
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Let’s see here… Maybe those individuals that wrote that pesky book called the VSL, you know the one on the altar? Without cherry picking from that inerrant book…

These opinions do not necessarily reflect those of the writer…

I’m just sayin’, you know what I mean? (I’m repeating some of the dialogue I hear in these “Christian Lodges”).

Those are the who!
 
Sirius

Sirius

Registered User
Traveling Man said:
Let’s see here… Maybe those individuals that wrote that pesky book called the VSL, you know the one on the altar? Without cherry picking from that inerrant book…
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I know it well. Cherry picking is right. Many cherry pick to find the justification for belief.

That very VSL say I can have my children stoned top death for misbehaving, is that of the mind of God?
 
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D

ddreader

Premium Member
Premium Member
no body knows the mind of god. and that goes for both sides of this issue. maybe its time to agree to disagree.
 
Traveling Man

Traveling Man

Premium Member
ddreader said:
no body knows the mind of god. and that goes for both sides of this issue. maybe its time to agree to disagree.
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I don’t see that there is any disagreement here, I hope that no one is misinterpreting that there is any more than pure speculation without condemnation occurring here, just a civil dialogue.
 
Sirius

Sirius

Registered User
Traveling Man said:
I don’t see that there is any disagreement here, I hope that no one is misinterpreting that there is any more than pure speculation without condemnation occurring here, just a civil dialogue.
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Nothing tests faith more than logic and reason.

This is where the conversation breaks down around here on these issues. One group sees the Bible as the literal word of God, yet they have absolutely no response as to why it sanctions filicide or the murder of your own child. It's a fatal error of logic. How can the Bible be the literal word of God and say you can have your children stoned to death? It doesn't make sense. But, if you take into consideration history, the man made content, and the allegory you'll find God. Still there. God doesn't need a book to make Him true.

Created in Gods image, man has limitless capacities for genius. We were given those capacities for a reason, to think.
 
Traveling Man

Traveling Man

Premium Member
Sirius said:
Nothing tests faith more than logic and reason…
We were given those capacities for a reason, to think…
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We couldn’t agree more…

For fear of offending some here I will leave this sleeping dog lie. With one caveat; anyone ever read “Age of Reason“ by Thomas Paine? I will now remain silent…

May G_d bless and good night.
 
vanderson78102

vanderson78102

Registered User
I mulled over this idea for quite a while. I will only say this on the topic.

If you think back to the obligation, we are not to accept a libertine. Would most of you be willing to accept someone that drinks to excess? How about one, who abuses drugs? What about a thief? In most cultures, a homosexual is considered a libertine in the traditional sense of the word just as one who is an alcoholic, drug addict, or anyone else of loose morals.

I'd choose to vote my conscious and in line with the obligation I have taken as a mason.
 
rhitland

rhitland

Founding Member
Premium Member
and that is your Right, but would you treat that man like a Brother if he got voted in despite you believing he should not be a Mason?
 
L

lilhancock

Registered User
rhitland said:
and that is your Right, but would you treat that man like a Brother if he got voted in despite you believing he should not be a Mason?
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Thank you for bringing us back to our original post. We're thought that once someone is in the lodge/chapter they are a brother/sister. Despite your outside beliefs...would you shake their hand, look them in the eye, and call them brother/sister?
 
Sirius

Sirius

Registered User
lilhancock said:
Thank you for bringing us back to our original post. We're thought that once someone is in the lodge/chapter they are a brother/sister. Despite your outside beliefs...would you shake their hand, look them in the eye, and call them brother/sister?
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Yes.

Gays aren't looking to 'social engineer' Masonry or some other nonsense. Gays have been to and are members of my Lodge and the only one who know are the ones who care enough to know about who a brother is. Many events have gone off without an issue, and with gays present. I think this is one of those what ifs, that can be blown out of proportion. What if 100 dancing Liza Mannelli's danced there way in lodge? What if Dorthy's house landed next to the Lodge and out came rainbows, drag-queens, and gogo boys?

Fact of the matter is, we've all probably met or know a gay Mason, and don't know it.
 
rhitland

rhitland

Founding Member
Premium Member
A great subject that seems to tread into moral law and personal views. How can so many believe this is morally correct and so many believe it is wrong? I also often wonder how a brother can truly meet on the level with someone they believe morally incorrect? In the bible and many other VSL it says thoughts are as binding as actions so if you think the brother is bad according to most VSL this is the same as telling him he is bad? Would this not prevent true levelness among you and the brother or sister who is gay?
 
Dave in Waco

Dave in Waco

Premium Member
Personally I have to default to the letter of the law on this. As long as he is a man and professes a belief in deity, then IMO he qualifies to be a Mason. Unless he shows a character flaw that comes out during his investigation, I don't see a reason why a gay man couldn't or shouldn't be a Mason. I don't think it's fair to hold him to standards of our faith when that is supposed to be between a man and his faith. Now that being said, I wouldn't want to look over at an event and see him and his date making out, but that would be for any couple regardless of their makeup.

And for the record, I had a friend back in high school. Halfway through his senior year, his dad makes an announcement in church, he was a preacher, that he was coming out of the closest to his wife, kids, and neighbors. The whole church and his family all went into shock. No one had any idea. So being married isn't always a good indicator.
 
P

peace out

Premium Member
Thanks, Rhit.

Perhaps it best to define two sects of morals; societal and religious morals.

These overlap to a great extent. If a moral is strictly religious and not societal, then perhaps the lodge should be hands off. Nevertheless, there are several societal morals which are not true morals, but are simply racist or bigot in disguise. Interracial marriage comes to mind here.

So what is homosexuality? Ignoring choice vs genetic, is it immoral in societal terms? I like a comment Dredd17 made in post #37...."not the best solution." This can apply to both those that might be choosing homosexuality and those shunning homosexuality.

Show me a logical proof (trigonometry term) where homosexuality threatens mankind's pursuit of happiness, either individually or as a whole.
 
rhitland

rhitland

Founding Member
Premium Member
Good point Brother, I would love to see that proof as well. I see proof to the contrary that society is no worse and maybe even a little better for the diversity. I have always felt ignorance is our biggest flaw as humans and it is something we all share in common. No matter how smart we get there is always something that we will be ignorant to and why do we spend so much time worrying about things that have no bearing on the pursuit of knowledge and get caught up in pointing the finger. I wish we could put the fingers up and lay the judgement to the side for the time and pursue knowledge together in peace and harmony. I have peace that God loves us all but most of all I believe we will all have to answer to Her for our actions so why worry about your fellow man's actions that have no effect on you? Judging ones life to your believes does absolutely no good for you as an individual. We all have a right to freedom and that freedom includes all aspect of private life so why not mind your own?
 
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