Balloting in an E.A. Lodge (Texas)

Discussion in 'Masonic Jurisprudence' started by Blake Bowden, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. Pscyclepath

    Pscyclepath Premium Member

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    Closing the Master's degree closes all the subordinate lodges below it... so we simply close in the Masters. You must, however, close in the highest degree on which the lodge was opened...
     
  2. Levelhead

    Levelhead Premium Member

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    Florida stated meetings are only in the MM degree. And balloting only takes place at stated meetings.


    Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom
     
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  3. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    That's the way it is here in Kentucky and the vast majority of us prefer it this way.
     
  4. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Why do you prefer to only do business on the MM?
     
  5. Levelhead

    Levelhead Premium Member

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    Because ea and fc have too much to study to be worried about lodge business.!


    Sent from Mossy Oak Swamp Bottom
     
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  6. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    It just seems to me that since you are not a "full fledged Mason" until after the 3rd degree you should have to wait until then to fully participate in the meetings. I am a fairly new MM, having been raised in August last year, and am not speaking for anyone else, just my humble opinion.
     
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  7. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Thats how it is in nm and or. Voting can ve done in any degree but only mms can cast a vote
     
  8. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    But would not attendance, without right of voting, allow only limited participation?
     
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  9. crono782

    crono782 Premium Member

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    I don't think so really. They still get a voice and opinion in the lodge, just not an official vote. Just my observation.
     
  10. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Yes, it would. I just feel that the right to participate in these meeting is to be earned and that is done by working through the MM degree. As I said before, just my personal opinion and feelings.
     
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  11. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    In my experience the main difference is confusion. EAs and FCs may speak on any topic but not vote. Not all that many motions see discussion, so so far I don't recall seeing any EA or FC raising to speak other than when specifically asked.

    I've stood with EAs and FCs during a ballot. One brother stays with them until I ballot, then I relieve him and he joins the ballot line. The company helps and it's a good time to explain to them that they are always welcome to stand to speak before any motion comes to vote.

    To me the issue of Stated in the 1st is simple. It's the world wide standard and always has been. To deviate from a world wide standard I expect a justification other than it's the current status quo. Before the matter came up in California GL I spoke on the matter that my mother lodge. The pedestal officers didn't even know it's the world wide standard. Just learning that was enough to change their minds on the matter.
     
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  12. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Hi Dreybur, for the purposes of clarity, what is this world wide standard ? Are you talking about equality of something else ?
     
  13. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Stated meetings in the first degree. EAs having a vote in matters not needing a unanimous ballot. Back in the 1840s US jurisdictions diverged from the world wide standard for reasons valid at the time and long since obsolete.
     
  14. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Thanks :)
     
  15. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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    I've always been a bit torn on whether EAs and FCs should vote, so I'll lay that issue aside for the moment.

    I hesitate to use the word 'hate', but for lack of a better word, I will. I hate the attitude that an EA is not a full Mason. He is told time and time again that he is a Mason, in most jurisdictions that I'm familiar with, the very first line of the catechism speaks to this. I cannot, for the life of me, understand where this idea came from that only MM are real Masons. Next we'll be saying that only officers are real Masons. Then, only PMs are real Masons. It is simple, black and white, the moment a man takes his O&O, he is a Mason. End of story.
    In my opinion, he ought to pay dues and be entitled to every Masonic right EXCEPT travel and maybe balloting.
    In thinking about this, maybe this is the reason. Here in the US, we rely so heavily upon dues cards as a mode of recognition for traveling brothers, that if you don't want an EA to travel, you don't give him a dues card. But how do you not give him one if he's paid his dues? In my mind, it's simple; dues cards simply have the degree indicated on them.
     
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  16. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    We dont have dues cards. It's good EA & FCs here have full rights - voting, visiting, etc... and they pay dues... They don't pay per degree, they just join. As they cannot be made MM's for a period of not less than 12 months, they are likely to have paid 2 years before they are made an MM.. Here, they are moving to allow all MMs to vote at GL (currently only GL officers and PMs). For me, that's where you draw the line... for a mason, 6 years is not long to wait to be able to raise your hand at GL.. having said that, MMs are one of our most important resources and should be listened to...
     
  17. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    In California and Illinois among my jurisdictions the newly obligated brother is invited to go with his mentor to see degrees at other lodges in the area.

    In Texas the newly obligated brother is issued an EA or FC card and invited to go with his mentor to see degrees at other lodges in the area.

    The Texas approach works, but it's a hack compared to the worldwide standard of charging dues and allowing hand votes as soon as a brother is obligated.

    Is it time to push for dues and hand votes among EAs and FCs? Having gotten Stated meetings in any degree it's no longer a motivating issue to me.

    That would leave balloting and admission into appendent bodies as the additional privileges for MMs.
     
  18. hanzosbm

    hanzosbm Premium Member

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  19. Canadian Paul

    Canadian Paul Registered User

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    In both jurisdictions here (Scotland and Newfoundland and Labrador) meetings are usually conducted in the EA degree and ballots taken in that degree. The only important difference between the two jurisdictions is that in the GL of NL an EA pays annual dues and therefore has 'voice and vote'. In our Scottish lodges only MMs are 'qualified members'. EAs and FCs have 'no voice nor vote' - but then again, they do not pay annual dues!

    To my mind the greatest advantage of working in the first degree is that there is no pressure on getting EAs and FCs through their degrees so they can sit in lodge. I attended a Regular Meeting of another lodge one week after being initiated and accompanied the Master to a meeting in another lodge, as well as my own, every month thereafter; - by the time I became a MM I almost knew the whole Opening and Closing in the First Degree by heart!
     
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  20. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    I visited a lodge once in TX and it was open on the EA degree but that did ballot which I found a bit odd since that's not the case in OK. The EA didn't get to vote but he was there. In our lodge, all business is conducted on the MM degree. I think the reason any business in TX is done on any degree is to maybe include the EAs and FCs so they will attend meetings. I guess it doesn't really matter which degree you're open on but it would seem to take away some of the mystery and motivation a bit if you saw everything on your first time there as an EA. IDK, it's a tough debacle to solve.
     

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