Conduct unbecoming of Masons

[bupton52]

Bro. Upton or Bro. Jones could give you an accurate answer to that- our List of Lodges Masonic contains no information regarding PHA Texas. What is the "Texas George Washington GL"? I've never heard of it & couldn't find anything regarding an organization of that name on Google.

As far as I know, the MWPHGLoTX does not allow dual membership. A demit is required. I have heard of "Mainstream" GLs referred to as George Washington GLs before. In this instance, I would assume that he is talking about the GLoTX.

 

[Bill Lins]

I have heard of "Mainstream" GLs referred to as George Washington GLs before.

That's a new one on me- I thought we might have a new bogus GL to contend with. :52:

 

[towerbuilder7]

Young Brother, I would call on you to handle this situation by following the wise counsel of my District Brother Byron Upton, and also to look within YOURSELF while enduring this ordeal. The issue may not lie with YOU, however, since you are being adversely affected, I can offer some First Degree advice off line. As one Brother stated above, there may perhaps be some issue of which you are unaware, and patience along with diplomacy is always the order of the day. I don't have the feeling that they would have given you the vote if they did not want you to become Brothers. And, in regard to your teaching/learning of information, some Lodges differ on how the information is taught.

Ultimately, it is YOUR responsibility to ingest what is issued to you, and commit it to memory. Books and websites that you may have bought and read don't determine how you are taught---YOUR LODGE DOES. This is a marathon, not a sprint, Brother........ If your sponsor is an active brother in this Lodge, then I would most definitely seek his advice/guidance on the matter. Your sponsor is the one who should be supporting you through this journey. I want to reserve judgment on the Brothers in the Lodge until you have gathered all of the facts, but please keep one thing in mind-----THE CRAFT POSSESSES MANY BEAUTIFUL TRUTHS, LESSONS, AND SYMBOLIC APPLICATIONS-----HOWEVER, MEN ARE IMPERFECT, SO WE MUST PLACE OUR TRUST IN THE GRAND ARCHITECT OF THE UNIVERSE.

Please reach out to your DDGM, if more than one attempt to your WM is unsuccessful. This is not your end of the road. We will all hold out hope that there is a plausible and HARMONIOUS solution to this issue. If either I or Bro Upton can be of assistance to you, please contact either one of us via Private Message. From THIS point until you receive more information, I would also refrain from putting ANY FURTHER INFORMATION regarding this issue on this Forum, until you have given your WM and DDGM the respect of an opportunity to handle your issue. I understand you were seeking guidance, but there was a word that you should have been taught which alludes to HOW YOU ARE TO HANDLE COMMUNICATION WITH OTHERS OUTSIDE OF YOUR LODGE at this point in your journey.

And, putting your Lodge business on a public Forum wasn't the most prudent manner or way to handle a sensitive issue such as this----you are trying to become a BROTHER OF THIS LODGE. I am not chastising you; I just want to impress upon you the importance of what you are getting yourself into----this is a BROTHERHOOD, however flawed some of its members may be, there are still protocols and courtesies which should be extended BOTH WAYS. YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO QUESTION, BUT YOU MUST BE CAREFUL AS TO HOW AND TO WHOM YOU DIRECT THAT INQUISITION.

Please advise us on any progress or result as you receive word......................CONTINUE TO SEEK LIGHT, and please take my advice and any criticism levelled here as CONSTRUCTIVE......I WISH YOU NOTHING BUT THE BEST IN YOUR ENDEAVOR TO BECOME MY BROTHER...............SO MOTE IT BE

BRO. VINCENT C. JONES, SR., BAYOU CITY LODGE #228, PHA
PRINCE HALL AFFILIATION, FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONS, DISTRICT 15-A, HOUSTON, TEXAS
MOST WORSHIPFUL PRINCE HALL GRAND LODGE OF TEXAS

 

[towerbuilder7]

And, to add a bit of clarity to the question of the study pamphlets used in Texas PHA Lodges----they are simply STUDY AIDS. NO RITUAL, just Q&A lecture, and the OB of said Degree. You could liken it to Cliff Notes, almost. It must ALL be committed to memory in OUR Lodge prior to passing or raising; NO exceptions. And, if proficiency is not met, one could be left behind. One has his sponsor, his classmates, and any other Brother who chooses to volunter his time in th effort to assist in teaching the information properly. You only get what is NECESSARY at certain points of your journey. We give you what we want you to have at that point, and as you progress, you get more..........hope that helped add some understanding...........and Bro Hatley has a good idea.......if Intervisitation is on the horizon, then at some point, there will need to be some protocols discussed as to how books are used. I would think that no one Grand Body would try to impose anything on the other that couldnt be agreed upon, with HARMONY being the most important concern.


BRO JONES

 

[Michael Hatley]

My concern is that pretty well all the fellas I know are such strong adherents to the mouth to ear bit for the Q&A that it would move them on the visitation issue if it came to it. I find that it rubbed off on me, and its one of the pillars of Freemasonry the way I was taught it. That bond I built with my brothers who taught me the work got me through the trying times, and it wound up being the magic that gave me a core of men at lodge that I felt really were my brothers, to the bone. If I had to point to one single thing that I'd not take away from a candidate, after the ob, its that time learning qa mouth to ear.

And on the other hand, if I could pick one single thing to change it would be to have visitation. So I find myself terribly torn. I really wish that the respective GLs would both chime in on where they stand, and actively, and transparently work towards a resolution.

Started a thread in SS, if this is distracting here - wherever.

 

[crono782]

I agree.


Freemason Connect Mobile

 

[dfreybur]

As far as I know, the MWPHGLoTX does not allow dual membership. A demit is required.

Thanks for this clarification Bro Byron. I am a Past Master life member of my mother lodge in California, a Past Master life member of my lodge in Illinois and an honorary member of another lodge in Illinois. I have no intention to ever demit from any of them. This choice on my part means I will not affiliate with a lodge in a jurisdiction without dual membership. At some point I'll petition for affiliation in one or more Texas lodges in the regular GL that does allow dual affiliations of that sort. Incidentally one of the reasons I interviewed for jobs in Texas is I had checked in advance that Texas allows dual affiliation so I would be able to affiliate after relocating here. After checking one jurisdiction I didn't think to check the other until we were already residents.

As I am currently not a Texas Mason in either of the regular GLs I can follow the California and Illinois rules and present myself to visit any lodge that will accept me in either recognized jurisdiction. I have done exactly that in at least 1 lodge in each jurisdiction so far. I understand that once I petition for affiliation I will only be able to attend non-tiled events sponsored by lodges in the other GL so I'm getting my visits in and building my friendships now. It makes me in no great hurry to affiliate.

There is the question of whether a lodge will accept me. There are two paths to take. PHA Texas to PHA California to GWA California. All recognition including visitation thus let me in. PHA Texas to GWA Texas to GWA California. The step between the two recognized Texas GLs does not include visitation thus don't let me in. It's up to the brethren which path to select. Let's just say there's a certain amount of magic in presenting my California dues card, putting on the California name badge from my PM apron briefcase, asking to take the Test/Tyler's Oath and walking from the Secretary's table to the south to chat with the brothers. Having attended a PHA meeting before I knew to put on my apron as a part of the opening not before the opening. "You do know this is a Prince Hall lodge, right?" "Certainly. I'm a California Mason not a Texas Mason and our recognition rules include visitation". "How did you find us?" "I looked you up on the Internet." Call it peer pressure if you like but it worked to get the brethren to chose the path of recognition that does allow visitation.

 

[dfreybur]

What is the "Texas George Washington GL"? I've never heard of it & couldn't find anything regarding an organization of that name on Google.

I first used the term going on 20 years ago when I first heard the word "mainstream" applied to one regular GL but not the other. The term has no standing of any sort. I have no idea if I was the first to use the term but I'm not the only brother I've encountered to use it.

All of the recognized (and to my limited knowledge the ones in states without recognition as well) PHA GLs trace their lineage to the premier GL of the world before the 1813 unification of the Antients and Moderns into the UGLE. Withholding the word "mainstream" from them is thus in contradiction with the facts of Masonic history and I will not participate in using it. Also withholding the word "mainstream" from them is an insult of omission and I will not participate in using it.

Prince Hall was a brother who set the example and tone of his entire Masonic lineage. He worked undaunted in the face of societal oppression and he is an example worthy of all emulation.

Who is a person of parallel example in the other set of regular GLs? The criteria would be Americans who were approximately contemporary with Prince Hall. There is one name that stands out. He invented the American Doctrine of Exclusive Jurisdiction establishing that each state GL is sovereign when he turned down the Grand Mastership of a national GL. He said "He who governs least governs best". George Washington is far an away the most obvious as we all in both sets of GLs follow his doctrine.

Thus I chose to use "George Washington Affiliation" and I decline to use the word "mainstream" for one set of GLs not the other. There is no expectation that anyone other than myself make this decision. I pray that it will gradually pervade.

 

[dfreybur]

I have heard of "Mainstream" GLs referred to as George Washington GLs before.

A further advantage having come from jurisdictions that have had visitation for years - Scottish Rite degree teams do visits among valleys as well. I've been to a reunion that had degrees from 3 SR jurisdictions. I have seen the PHA Scottish Rite degree that depicts brothers Prince Hall and George Washington meeting in person. It further reenforces my decision to use the term GWA. So far it's the only PHA Scottish Rite degree on my passport.

At that reunion some of the brethren were more interested in the SJ degree that was presented. I pulled out my beat up old SJ passport that showed I'd seen it at my first reunion when I became an SR mason. :laugh:

In this instance, I would assume that he is talking about the GLoTX.

One of the two recognized GLs. Yes. I just posted why I decline to use other terminology.

 

[bupton52]

A further advantage having come from jurisdictions that have had visitation for years - Scottish Rite degree teams do visits among valleys as well. I've been to a reunion that had degrees from 3 SR jurisdictions. I have seen the PHA Scottish Rite degree that depicts brothers Prince Hall and George Washington meeting in person. It further reenforces my decision to use the term GWA. So far it's the only PHA Scottish Rite degree on my passport.

At that reunion some of the brethren were more interested in the SJ degree that was presented. I pulled out my beat up old SJ passport that showed I'd seen it at my first reunion when I became an SR mason. :laugh:



One of the two recognized GLs. Yes. I just posted why I decline to use other terminology.

Thanks for the explanation!

 

[crono782]

Sorry, but I dislike tacking on "GWA" to non-PHA lodges personally. I also dislike the term "mainstream" too. Anything not "mainstream", in my opinion, denotes clandestine. PHA is also mainstream. I see your logic and it's actually quite clever, but still I don't like the notion of my GL being denoted with a new name (George Washington Affiliated) that isn't correct (nomenclature-wise) just the same as I also don't like PHA being denoted as not "mainstream" which isn't correct. GLo* and MWPHGLo* should be sufficient. In conversation, I say it should just be denoted as PH and non-PH flavors of masonry. Granted this would be a non-issue if there was just ONE masonry, but gotta start small somewhere. I get it, it's all semantics, but the wedge-driving needs to get better, not worse. Just my .02

 

[Michael Hatley]

Thats roughly my take too. I like the creativity of avoiding "mainstream", a word I don't like. But yeah, I wouldn't actually use "GW" or the like or follow suit personally with that particular naming convention.

I wish there was no division at all. I wish I could snap my fingers and bam, 50 years ago some brilliant men game together against all the odds and merged the two Grand Lodges and they had moved forward hand in hand and gave us that legacy to be proud of.

But wish in one hand.....

I can only hope some brilliant men come along to do it, I'll gladly do the cookin - because God knows I don't see how to get it done myself.

 

[tomasball]

I suppose that instead of "mainstream," at least on this continent, you could refer to a grand lodge as participating in the CGMNA.

 

[dfreybur]

Sorry, but I dislike tacking on "GWA" to non-PHA lodges personally.

The good thing about my suggestion having zero standing of any sort is it does not matter if anyone agrees or disagrees with it. It brings the issue to mind and I'm happy that any brother thinks it over agreement or not. So thanks for disagreeing with me!

Granted this would be a non-issue if there was just ONE masonry, but gotta start small somewhere.

Discussion of unification is happening among the brothers in states where visitation has been in place for years. I doubt any motions of unification will come to any GL floor for a long time. I would be astonished if any such motion passed and doubly astonished if any such motion were ratified by the other GL in any state. We have a model for unification from when the Antients and Moderns unified. The fact that we have a model for unification does not make unification the thing to do. Our GLs have traditions older than our country. Unification would erode those traditions.

How about an unusual take on unification - The PH lodges I've visited and been visited by have been more active on average than the lodges of my jurisdictions. In Masonry numbers count for budget but level of activity has always trumped budget. Should any unification happen over time the influence of the more active PH brothers would tend to dominate. It could happen that they subsume us in spite of the difference in numbers. Not that I think any GL is going to accept a unification offer.

I definitely don't think any GL will accept an consolidation offer. I don't recommend even offering that. I've been through consolidations with one lodge absorbing another, from both directions even.

 

[crono782]

The good thing about my suggestion having zero standing of any sort is it does not matter if anyone agrees or disagrees with it. It brings the issue to mind and I'm happy that any brother thinks it over agreement or not. So thanks for disagreeing with me!

Any publicity is good publicity, I say.

I definitely don't think any GL will accept an consolidation offer. I don't recommend even offering that. I've been through consolidations with one lodge absorbing another, from both directions even.

Yeah, I was just wishful thinking that our forefathers would've had better foresight.

 

[Bill Lins]

We have a model for unification from when the Antients and Moderns unified.

Actually, that was a reunification- the Antients split off from the original GL & rejoined later on. They had a common history, which American GLs & PHA GLs do not have. I don't believe UGLE is that valid a model. I doubt there would be much support for unification, except for GLs that are failing financially. Personally, I'd like to see full recognition with all privileges, especially intervisitation, but not unification- each GL has a long & proud history & heritage which needs to be maintained & preserved.

 

[Onewhoseeks]

I wanted to give an update to the forum on the progress of my issue written on in my first post. Mainly for the gentlemen that reached out to me with aid on how to work through the issue I had with being suspended from my lodge. This is June 3, 2013 and absolutely nothing has been done since the first day I wrote in this forum. I got one call from the DDGM asking me not to air out the business in this forum and to give him a chance to resolve this issue. I have not had any contact or phone call from him since that day. I am extremely disappointed in how this has been handled in the Dallas area. I will no longer pursue masonry. I have very little respect for how the men in the Dallas area have conducted themselves in this matter. To all of you in this forum that attempted to assist me and not even knowing me, I am grateful and impressed with how you wanted to help a brother in distress. You are what my ideal of masons should be not how them men in the Dallas area have conducted themselves. Thank you and I wish you gentlemen well.
Sincerely
Reginald Martin

 

[Roy Vance]

I wanted to give an update to the forum on the progress of my issue written on in my first post. Mainly for the gentlemen that reached out to me with aid on how to work through the issue I had with being suspended from my lodge. This is June 3, 2013 and absolutely nothing has been done since the first day I wrote in this forum. I got one call from the DDGM asking me not to air out the business in this forum and to give him a chance to resolve this issue. I have not had any contact or phone call from him since that day. I am extremely disappointed in how this has been handled in the Dallas area. I will no longer pursue masonry. I have very little respect for how the men in the Dallas area have conducted themselves in this matter. To all of you in this forum that attempted to assist me and not even knowing me, I am grateful and impressed with how you wanted to help a brother in distress. You are what my ideal of masons should be not how them men in the Dallas area have conducted themselves. Thank you and I wish you gentlemen well.
Sincerely
Reginald Martin

Brother Martin, please do not leave Masnory. There is surely another way for you to find the light you seek. There are other Lodges in the Metroplex. Ft. Worth is in a different Masonic district, I believe, and there are plenty of Lodges over that way. There a some of the Brothers on this forum that are from Lodges in that area. One of them is Brother crono782. Please converse with them. We would hate to lose you because of the actions of some of the others. Please think about what I say. S&F.

 

[pecolaman]

Onewhoseeks, disreguard

 

[bupton52]

Onewhoseeks, you were ask several times the name of your lodge or grand lodge would you please adhere to the question as it is not a secret.

He has refrained from stating the name of his lodge and grand lodge so as to not cause embarrassment to either of them.