Freemasonry needs to ditch 1950s attitudes

Discussion in 'Masonic Blogs' started by Bloke, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    ........love ya James
     
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  2. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    AGREED!!!!!
     
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  3. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    You are bordering on troll status James. ....remember resam. ....yeah..like him

    Sent from my SM-G386T using My Freemasonry mobile app
     
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  4. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    When I give data points they are completely ignored. Even Clint Lewey compares an artist's impression done perhaps 10 000 years after the event with his local ritual where the genuine secrets have not been seen for 300 years.

    Current ritual has been modified by >10 generations of brethren without the genuine secrets. How good is that?

    Given the parlous state of Masonic knowledge, recovery of the genuine secrets (from the ancient mysteries) must start outside of Masonry with wide reading, meditation and pursuit of the hidden mysteries of nature and science.

    John 6:60
     
  5. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    What does 'Even Clint Lewey compares an artist's impression done perhaps 10 000 years after the event with his local ritual where the genuine secrets have not been seen for 300 years." mean? I'm trying to clarify what you are saying. Some 10, 000 year old ancient Asian art has little or nothing directly to do with BL Masonry. Does it all connect together in some way shape or form? Perhaps, but it's not that obvious and you'd really have to dig to link it accurately. I am familiar with Astrotheology and how things link together. Believe me, I understand what you mean but this site may not be the best forum to talk down to my Brothers on. I appreciate your insight sometimes but this may not be the best place for that.
     
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  6. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >I'm trying to clarify what you are saying.

    Neither source is accurate but both serve as a starting point for inquiry into some of the genuine secrets.

    >this may not be the best place for that.

    Quite so. Do you have a better suggestion?
     
  7. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    There are NO “genuine” secrets. The word secret means “not known or seen or not meant to be known or seen by others.” So if there’s a secret that is outside the fraternity you can’t know it unless it is told to you. Same as our “secrets”. Which aren’t really secret at all and never have been. Freemasonry is an organization that someone made up 300ish yrs ago and used stories from many cultures and mashed em together to tell a story.

    Spoiler alert: HAB wasn’t the chief architect.
    Moses didn’t part the Red Sea and Mohamed didn’t speak directly to God.
     
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  8. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    Google
     
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  9. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Agreed!
    Great suggestion.
     
  10. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    It might be that the genuine secrets are true but not real. Now, that sentence may not make much sense, unless the actual meaning of the words 'real' and 'true' are veiled. Perhaps what is real is what can be seen around us and what is true is what we can know internally. Or it could all be bullmanure. Unless we can learn to separate our internal and external worlds into their component parts, and then recombine them according to our will we are unlikely to ever know. I have no idea if this is the correct answer but it sure sounds all mystical-ly, don't it. :)
     
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  11. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >unless the actual meaning of the words 'real' and 'true' are veiled.

    This is an issue that I struggled with until I had some inner experiences.

    It was too easy for me to assume which words in the ritual were veiled and which were literal. It was necessary for me to test my interpretations with direct experiences - for example by using what is veiled by the "working tools" in what is veiled by "a moral sense" to establish what is true to what.
     
  12. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    I too had some inner experiences. The problem with "inner experiences" is that the individual must interpret them by himself and according to whatever level of understanding they possess. So we are left with the three part problem of accurate assessment, adequate understanding, and correct interpretation.
    Honestly, it is more likely that I understand what is veiled by the symbol "working tools" than by the symbol "moral sense". I find that a well grasped tool often does poor work if one does not know for what purpose one is using it.
     
  13. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >The problem with "inner experiences" is that the individual must interpret them by himself and according to whatever level of understanding they possess.

    It is possible to conduct inner experiences/experiments in the company of others that observe our inner experience and provide a more objective view. This is critical in practicing a spiritual science such as Masonic Science.

    And having observed the experiment/experience it is possible to make deductions and devise experiments to test those deductions.

    This is a natural extension of the work of the FC - the study of the hidden mysteries of nature and science
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  14. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >more likely that I understand what is veiled by the symbol "working tools" than by the symbol "moral sense"

    Albert Mackey may be able to assist:
    "The definition of Freemasonry that it is " a science of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols," has been so often quoted, that, were it not for its beauty, it would become wearisome. " The Symbolism of Freemasonry, Chapter 1. (My bolding)

    These days we veil the science of morality by calling it a system of morality. This avoids many difficult questions but generates a new question: why do we need to veil a system of morality? Is there something strange that is hidden?

    There are various sciences of morality in existence - not all well-formed. NLP is an obvious example. Feng Shui has definite moral applications. Astrology might also be included.

    What then is peculiar about the Masonic science of morality?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  15. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    The only thing astrology does in the real world is give suburban white girls “super cute” tattoos.....

    Don’t tell my wife i said that
     
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  16. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Lol....agreed!
     
  17. Overworked724

    Overworked724 Registered User

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    Darn it...and here I always thought those girly astrology tattoos hid a deeper meaning. So much for convincing my wife to get one...sigh.
     
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  18. LK600

    LK600 Premium Member

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    I was sitting here reading this thread and it struck me how different my views are on things than others, including here.

    jamesthejust... I much of the time love your slant on things but sometimes you appear to say something interesting and then stop in mid sentence. I'm not sure why.

    imo... the argument of whether Freemasonry can trace it's roots back hundreds (thousands?) of years or if it was all made up is distracting. The knowledge, or maybe "that which was lost" supersedes Freemasonry and absolutely can be traced back thousands of years. Freemasonry is (one of) the vehicle to... not the end.

    And lastly, since I believe the Bible is literal (though our interpretation may be skewed), I do believe that Moses parted the red sea, that Astrology is more than pretty symbols (not judging), and that hidden knowledge and mysticism are real (though most are charlatans). :)
     
  19. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    >sometimes you appear to say something interesting and then stop in mid sentence.

    It is for the interested reader to pursue - and perhaps not for me to write in a public forum.

    >Freemasonry is (one of) the vehicle to... not the end.

    Quite so. Masonic Science, as with any science, is not restricted to members of particular societies. All people of good will, with much hard work, may advance in Masonic Science.

    >I do believe that Moses parted the red sea,

    I have read that Moses recovered technical devices from the Great Pyramid and that the pharaoh pursued the Hebrews not to capture them but to capture the technical devices. Apparently Hitler was similarly interested in recovering that ancient technology and instigated exploration of caves around Rennes le Chateau in case the Templars had hidden it there.

    https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/merovingians/merovingios_renneschateau02.htm
     

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