Gay Men in Masonry

[CLewey44]

Any thoughts on gay men being able to join Masonry? I know this topic has been hit on a lot but I work with a man that is gay and interested in Masonry. He's a Marine, upstanding guy but he is gay and has a partner. Would any of you object to allowing a gay man join? Would you be comfortable in that situation?

 

[Matt L]

He is a Marine and has served his country. Is he a good citizen and good to his partner? Does he believe in a supreme being? If he would pass an investigation committee, regardless of his preference in partners, I would have no problem embracing him as a brother.

 

[CLewey44]

I agree. I have zero problem with it and I've been guiding him along but I was curious how other folks from other GLs felt on the issue. Very nice guy, spiritual person. I think he'd make an excellent Mason.

 

[Matt L]

I do not speak for my GL, only for myself. I was in the minority

 

[Brother JC]

It's none of my business how he loves. His other qualifications sound spot on.

 

[zacbrown]

Looking at our ritual alone, it makes no distinction on the sexual orientation of the candidate.

Grand Lodges that explicitly ban something like this are asinine.


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[dfreybur]

There are no questions on the topic on the petitions in any of my jurisdictions. No issue to me. Even if informed I might forget as it's not an interesting topic to me.

Petition? You said petition! Now that's interesting.

 

[vangoedenaam]

Its no problem in my country, The Netherlands. Just dont join in Tennessee


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[Elexir]

I dont understand why people should even care what sexual orientation or what skin color one has.

 

[CLewey44]

I think most fellas wouldn't care one bit.

 

[flttrainer]

It wouldn't bother me a bit. I cannot remember a single time this conversation ever came up in my lodge.


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[Bro. Stewart P.M.]

Until the question is clearly addressed on the Petition for Degrees (and shouldn't be), we as a Fraternity should really have no opinion in the matter.

If the candidate can answer all of the current questions correctly and honestly and meets the current qualifications, then there should be no reason to deny his receiving the degrees of Freemasonry. The days of hidden bigotry are long being exposed, it is a great time in our Fraternity to finally be living up to our own high standards and not double standards.

 

[J. Earl]

I don't think it should be an issue. I wouldn't have a problem with it.


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[Ripcord22A]

I have a man in my lodge now that is gay, no problem here.....but im gonna play devils advocate....do you consider homosexuality to be immoral? Because if you do then i think you would have to black ball him.....

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[coachn]

I have a man in my lodge now that is gay, no problem here.....but im gonna play devils advocate....do you consider homosexuality to be immoral? Because if you do then i think you would have to black ball him.....

http://www.matthewvines.com/transcript/

 

[CLewey44]

I have a man in my lodge now that is gay, no problem here.....but im gonna play devils advocate....do you consider homosexuality to be immoral? Because if you do then i think you would have to black ball him.....

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I see your point but I think we sort of glaze over other issues that are 'immoral' and we allow those things. Is an overweight brother(not due to medical reasons) immoral because he's a glutton and eats fast food all the time and drinks Bud Heavy? A guy that dips, chews or smokes immoral? He's destroying his temple. Is someone that drinks immoral? Cusses a lot (military here and believe me I have to watch my language a lot) Eats shrimp or whatever? I think what's immoral is subjective. Heck, there's 'gay churches' that allow it so I would say they are under the impression they aren't being immoral. I don't think Masonry subscribes to strong conservative, evangelical views. If it did, then being another religion alone would be considered 'immoral' and we all know that is not tolerated in lodge.

 

[Elexir]

I would say that what is considerd sins are not really a question for freemasonry but is a religous idea that should be left at the door since no ones interpitation of a religous text should rank higher then any others.

I think when looking at morals there are more important things to look at then what people do in the bedroom.

 

[Ripcord22A]

(Again just devils advocate here) being overweight doesnt mean ur glutton, maybe u just dont exercise. Tobacco and alcohol use as long as its not in excess (doesnt cause undue strain on personal or professional relationships/life or financial well being...my definition) cussing? Other then not taking the Lords name in vain where does it say u cant cant cuss?

But you are right...morality is subjective. There are alot of things that the Bible says is a sin that dont bother me then again there are things that it says can be forgiven that i dont agree with either....
Vote with your heart and for the good of freemasonry...

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[CLewey44]

Ephesians 4:29, First Peter 3:10 and James 3: 9-12 in the Christian VSL say that. These could be interpreted however, again subjective. Who do you know that uses tobacco that doesn't use it in 'excess'? Spending $70 a week (that's only at one pack per day) on cigs in NY is pretty expensive and there is no way around it, tobacco and nicotine is bad for you. And actually, your diet has everything to do with being overweight unless you have a medical problem. If you eat terrible and excessively, you can't exercise your self out of being overweight. Eating 3500 calories a day and then burning 200 off, you're still going to be overweight. Alcohol, if you can't go a weekend without drinking more than 2 or 3 drinks, you may be an alcoholic 'by definition' and that is physically damaging. I'm not judging anyone and I think we're just arguing in circles here but the point is definitely subjective.

My point is that what is an immoral lifestyle? Someone eating a lot or dipping Skoal doesn't bother me one bit because it doesn't effect me (other than insurance premiums going up due to bad life choices of others) and I would not vote down on them if they were a good guy and neither does a guy that's attracted to other dudes. Doesn't effect me one bit. I'd hate to vote out a good addition to my lodge due to his personal preferences.

 

[dfreybur]

I have a man in my lodge now that is gay, no problem here.....

Given that gay folks are somewhere around 5-10% of the population nearly all lodges have gay Brothers. We just have no idea which Brothers they are.

This teaches something interesting. Knowing what we see at lodge about a guy we judge him good. Yet he declines to discuss specific religious topics because that's a landmark.

Sometimes I write about learning religious tolerance with a story - We sit in lodge with Brother X for many years. We work together at the annual fund raising breakfast and other events. One day we're driving around and there's Brother X walking his family into the building of Religion Y to attend services. All these years you knew Brother X to be a good guy but suddenly he's "one of *those* people". One of our prejudices goes BOOM and we are better men for the experience.

Masonry is *supposed* to be an asylum from religious oppression and religious judgment. Even an asylum against our own prejudices. Who's the better man - The one who comes to Masonry knowing that and then judges, or the man who comes to Masonry and then remains silent? Not an easy question to answer I hope.

Remember that we have adopted as kin members of every faith in the world, and that each faith has its own rules. We knew that going in. Simple does NOT equal easy!