Gay Men in Masonry

Discussion in 'Masonic Jurisprudence' started by CLewey44, Dec 24, 2016.

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Should gay men be allowed to join Masonry?

  1. Yes

    34 vote(s)
    82.9%
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
    17.1%
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  1. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Given that gay folks are somewhere around 5-10% of the population nearly all lodges have gay Brothers. We just have no idea which Brothers they are.

    This teaches something interesting. Knowing what we see at lodge about a guy we judge him good. Yet he declines to discuss specific religious topics because that's a landmark.

    Sometimes I write about learning religious tolerance with a story - We sit in lodge with Brother X for many years. We work together at the annual fund raising breakfast and other events. One day we're driving around and there's Brother X walking his family into the building of Religion Y to attend services. All these years you knew Brother X to be a good guy but suddenly he's "one of *those* people". One of our prejudices goes BOOM and we are better men for the experience.

    Masonry is *supposed* to be an asylum from religious oppression and religious judgment. Even an asylum against our own prejudices. Who's the better man - The one who comes to Masonry knowing that and then judges, or the man who comes to Masonry and then remains silent? Not an easy question to answer I hope.

    Remember that we have adopted as kin members of every faith in the world, and that each faith has its own rules. We knew that going in. Simple does NOT equal easy!
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  2. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Isnt that what all debates are?

    Up to interpretation of the individual brother. In Christianity most just say that that person will be damned to hell lest they repent. In Muslim country's they stone or hang the "offenders" to death. Again up to interpretation.

    And this is where it gets tricky. My son knows what "gay" is. My daughter has a friend who has 2 moms, she doesnt really understand it. Theres even a cartoon now that has 2 dads. But I dont want my kids seeing PDA. From straight or homosexual couples. So in my opinion if the man applying presented himself as a respected man and acted as a man and kept his personal life personal, i would have no issue. But m if that man tended to be more on the effeminate side and dressed as such and was always wanting to flaunt his sexuality then yeah id have a problem. Even if it was a straight man that was always seen displaying gross displays of PDA, id have a problem.

    As i said before there is a gay man in my lodge now. i not only consider him my fraternal brother but also one of my great friends!


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  3. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    Fair enough. I wouldn't imagine that there are too many effeminate gay guys beating down the doors in the west trying to come hang out with a bunch of Masons. I don't think anyone would be comfortable with any person flaunting any sexuality if they walked in to petition a lodge and I don't think any gay man that would want to join would be that way. There are definitely standards. The guy I know, you' d "never know he was gay". He's a Marine. Hits the gym all the time etc. Drives a Jeep Wrangler if that paints a picture. PDA between any two can be a little off putting and to be honest, I've never seen two guys kiss or anything in person(other than tv) so I wouldn't say there's really an issue there no more than straight people doing so. I don't think there'll ever be a influx of effeminate or transgender or whatever guys trying to join.
     
    Ripcord22A likes this.
  4. RhushidaK

    RhushidaK Registered User

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    I have no problem with gay brethren. After all, their personal lives are not upto us to judge. What we do need to see is that they're good men, and as many brethren here pointed out, good to their family (which in their case would be their gay partner).

    If we start judging and black-balling candidates as per our own personal religious preferences, we'd be doing Freemasonry a disservice as we'd be imposing our religious ideals on it.

    Blackballing a gay candidate for being gay is like a Christian brother blackballing a Muslim candidate for not believing Jesus as son of God, or a Hindu brother blackballing a Christian candidate for eating beef, or so on. As Freemasons, while we are not forced to follow the beliefs of our brethren, we are at the same time required to respect and honour our brethren's beliefs, without imposing our own beliefs on them.
     
  5. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    Yes brother, that was exactly my point originally. You are spot on.
     
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  6. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    The moment you start imposing your perception of morality in lodge you have broken the "no religion" rule. My church welcomes gays, regardless of some individual's interpretation and cherry-picking of millennia old laws.
    Sexuality is not a question on the petition.
     
  7. Bobby V

    Bobby V Registered User

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    Bigots view gay men as having an abnormal sexuality disorder. They then condemn this sexual disorder as characteristic of sexual predators. Gay or straight ... sexual predators should have no home in Masonry. As a Master Mason for over 42 years, I remember when petitions from men of color were as welcome as an ex's petition for an increase in alimony. Our great fraternity will weather this latest tempest.

    "There is only one good, knowledge; and one evil, ignorance." Seneca

    Fairport-Flower City 476 F&AM (GLNY)
    Valley of Dallas, Orient of Texas
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  8. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Not sure who you mean (and it doesn't matter) but I remember the first openly gay candidate Cerrillos had... there was a bit of fuss and a good bit of discussion. When the dust settled we Initiated him. I don't think anyone has really thought about it since. As it should be.
     
  9. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    We arent speaking of the same man. Im not sure who ur talking about but the one im speaking of is a transfer from another Grand Jurisdiction

    Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app
     
  10. samelevel

    samelevel Registered User

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    I'm wondering what happened to tolerance?


    Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry
     
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  11. The Traveling Man

    The Traveling Man Registered User

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    Most Jurisdictions would have no problem with a gay man joining Masonry. I have met gay Masons, and have sat in Lodge with 1. His sexual preference does not determine his character.
     
  12. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    It won. As I said, the man is now a Brother.
     
  13. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Tolerance is not agreement. It is agreeing to disagree and moving on to other topics.

    Tolerance is not acceptance of the actions. It is acceptance that the person has value.

    Tolerance wins, eventually. As we are seeing across our lives.
     
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  14. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Same here.
     
    samelevel likes this.
  15. Brother_Steve

    Brother_Steve Premium Member

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    If Masonry is going to subject itself to biblical law, then any man who has been divorced, had sexual relations outside of marriage, ...shall I go on ... should be just as guilty as the gay man in their eyes and should be unfit for Masonry. I wonder how many Masons that are anti-gay would go poof if would could wave that magic wand?

    I guess you did hit on a point though. Some men are not comfortable with themselves based on the preferences of others.. Therefore, a gay man in lodge would just make them constantly think, "oh my god, does he want to have sex with me?!" every time that individual spoke with them.

    The problem isn't with the Gay man. It's with those in power who cannot get over the fact that they have these uncontrollable emotional knee-jerk reactions when a gay man might walk up to them to have a friendly conversation. The argument that it is breaking some moral law is just something tangible for them to hide behind. Nothing more in my opinion.
     
  16. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    I would have to say, a lack of humility and thoughts of self-grandeur may be involved if you think every gay man (or woman too if that's one reason why they aren't allowed to join) that walks up to you wants to have sex lol.
     
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  17. Brother_Steve

    Brother_Steve Premium Member

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    Homophobia is real. I am not homophobic, however those that are in a position to make sweeping decisions that affect thousands most likely ... are
     
  18. Wesley Kierstead

    Wesley Kierstead Registered User

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    If he is found worthy by investigation committee he can join. Period. Sexual preference is not something that should be prohibitory.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using My Freemasonry mobile app
     
  19. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Agreed!
     
  20. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    Works for me.
     
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