My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Have standards really been lowered?

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
I've seen in a couple lodges I visit regularly, it's quantity, not so much quality.
Case in point....I visited a lodge to watch an MM proficiency. We all needed prompting a few times but this one consisted of the guy pretty much repeating what the lecturer said.
Every member is not a Mason. Quantity doesn't match or beat quality.
Not to mention, who's showing up vs who is paying dues every year and hasn't been to lodge in 5 years?
Exactly.
 

jermy Bell

Registered User
We also have around 200 members, but barely enough to open for business. But no one cares as long as they keep paid up. And a few that do show up treat it like a club house, and preach, but won't do anything.
 

pointwithinacircle2

Rapscallion
Premium Member
Someone much wiser than me once said, "We are diamonds in the rough, and our goal is to polish our diamond to it's greatest brilliance. But what people don't realize is that polishing usually involves a lot of heat and pressure". I believe something similar could be said about the Perfect Ashler.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
Someone much wiser than me once said, "We are diamonds in the rough, and our goal is to polish our diamond to it's greatest brilliance. But what people don't realize is that polishing usually involves a lot of heat and pressure". I believe something similar could be said about the Perfect Ashler.
Agreed! Some people strive more than others, some not at all.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Hi Jeremy

How is it good if standards have been lowered? Might as well call yourself a sticker mason.

I am not sure what a "sticker mason" is but I can guess... it reminds me of a PM at a lodge I used to visit who spoke of 'west wind masons" because men would blow in and out of the west end of the lodge, never doing much. I would suggest they did that because they heard his speak of "west wind masons" which condemned rather than encouraged....two such "west wind masons" from that very lodge are now PMs of my mother lodge after transfer , good Freemasons and very good friends..... and the lodge where that PM used to talk about "west wind masons" ? It's warrant went in and for one reason - people were not positive, and they were not willing to change, and those voices held sway.


Don't worry brother if "standards have been lowered" it makes it much easier to lift them, and if not, then that's good too - win win !
:)

I stand by the above, because it is optimistic. You will never able to achieve "high standards" without optimism.

I also know Lodges, and indeed the whole craft, ebb and flow.. for me, there is only one standard we should not move one - the high standard of the character of candidates, but that too changes, we admit gay men, once we may not have and some places still dont (friendly nod to Bro Oscar Wilde and all gay brothers), we admit divorced men, once we many not have and its not even a question on a petition or considered in any place I am aware of, we admit people from certain religions and ethnic groups where we may not have, and we are only able to do so because standards change (up or down depending on one's view, but I think most people would say up because admitting a black Muslim of good character is Masonic, but might not have happened in some states in recent history. If your "lowering of standards" is about colour, race or religion, then you must ask yourself if Freemasonry is the right fit for you, and indeed in all things look to, and in, yourself before you start worrying about others.. leading by example is very important.)

I spent several years looking after a mentally ill niece 10 years my junior, my goal was to keep her alive and get her independent. It took 4 years and was frankly harrowing. I tried all sorts of things for her and one was together reading a book on recovery which had a line I it I will never forget "If something is worth doing, then it is worth doing badly.". I will never forget it because I dont set out to do things badly, no no no, I set out to do them well, but the book argued to get better you need to start trying things and failure will be part of the trying, but it will get better and easier. I think "If something is worth doing, then it is worth doing badly" is actually quite profound and as someone with a bit of perfectionism about me (not in spelling and typing lol...sorry) it is a great thing to remember, because little in life is perfect...

Freemasonry might not be perfect, but "If something is worth doing, then it is worth doing badly.".. because in the doing, one day you will get to the point where you want it to be.. and let's not forget, Freemasonry primary purpose is to change the individual, to change you so that's where you should always start with your problems, with the questions "what can I do to make things better?"

I'm a 3x PM of two lodges, one, my mother lodge known for being friendly and its masonic spirit, the other for being friendly, young, kids and family and some of the best ritual work around at the moment (I am DC there and the team will tell you I'm very interested in standards, I'm not, I am interested in learning, "standards" are just a byproduct of that....). Standards are very important, but neither of these lodges have been able to hold the same standard in the last decade. They have ebbed and flowed, but what makes them both great is they are interesting in improvement because they realize they are doing something they enjoy and is worthwhile.

If you're not enjoying or doing something you believe in, you need to make adjustments to make at least one of those two things a reality for yourself. That might mean leaving Freemasonry, it might mean changing lodges, it might just mean walking into your current lodge with a new attitude.

Fed up, and just about done with masonry
For me, Freemasonry is about finding a better me. I can't see how I will ever be done with that...
 

jermy Bell

Registered User
A sticker mason is a a person who enjoys the rights and. Benfits of being a mason, got the S&C stickers in their car or truck window, bumper sticker, and never show up for anything, or or show back up.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
A sticker mason is a a person who enjoys the rights and. Benfits of being a mason, got the S&C stickers in their car or truck window, bumper sticker, and never show up for anything, or or show back up.
Never heard the term. It would apply to a friend of mine who for 18 years did not go to lodge... he was dragged to ours by a friend about 8 years ago, and after a career and kids got involved again. He became Master, attends most meetings, is the President of our Building Trust, organises charity dos.. etc... don't write those guys completely off. Time and circumstance might prohibit them attending, but they are supporting the Craft in their own way. (attendance at our lodge is about 70% of members, so I perhaps dont have the same feels you have about being left high and dry by our membership... but if we did not have attending, those "sticker masons" are likely where your rescue will be..)
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
I read a GM UT address c. 1874. He lamented that in a lodge of 100, only 10 would come to a meeting.

I am unaware of a US GL which has an obligatory requirement that one attend. We certainly don't object to receiving the dues/subs from a less active member. I wonder how many have been called in 20 years by a lodge officer?

We have met the enemy, and he is us. (Ref. Pogo).
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I have no problem whatsoever with sticker masons. They support the lodge through paying dues and are doing what our program asks, living a good life.

What exact are those rights and benefits that sticker masons are enjoying?
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
A counter view would be that Masonry is a progressive moral science for an individual. The improvement of a man never plays out or passes away from generation to generation.
Masonry is a progressive science, when practiced.

Freemasonry is not, no matter how it is practiced. It is an "art"; there are profound difference!
Not to mention, who's showing up vs who is paying dues every year and hasn't been to lodge in 5 years?
If they pay their dues and don't show up, we should applaud them, not act like they are doing something wrong. Neither Freemasonry or Masonry demands or require attendance at meetings.
 
Last edited:

CLewey44

Registered User
I see what you mean, but I would imagine them not participating at all in lodge would correlate with them not being involved in Masonry on their own as well (self-study) and I would then venture to say, frankly, 'what's the point?' Most especially if it's been many years and no sign of them getting back in. Granted old age or handicapped people, illness, that's obviously different but I would be willing to bet most that pay and never show are probably quite capable of doing so and maybe have lost the will to be there or self-study too and therefore completely lost all desire for Masonry. That could be due to their lodge failing them just as well.
 

Zack

Registered User
[QUOTE="coachn, post: 174283, member: 2329.

If they pay their dues and don't show up, we should applaud them, not act like they are doing something wrong. Neither Freemasonry or Masonry demands or require attendance at meetings.[/QUOTE]

They keep the electric on for those do attend. APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE!
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
If you're not enjoying or doing something you believe in, you need to make adjustments to make at least one of those two things a reality for yourself.
Totally agree. I love what I am doing in Masonry and the appendant bodies.
A sticker mason is a a person who enjoys the rights and. Benfits of being a mason, got the S&C stickers in their car or truck window, bumper sticker, and never show up for anything, or or show back up.
I refer to them as "Title Hunters". For example, someone that joins the Knights Templar so that they can use this title but then never attend another meeting.
I see what you mean, but I would imagine them not participating at all in lodge would correlate with them not being involved in Masonry on their own as well (self-study) and I would then venture to say, frankly, 'what's the point?'
Yep.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I see what you mean, but I would imagine them not participating at all in lodge would correlate with them not being involved in Masonry on their own as well (self-study) and I would then venture to say, frankly, 'what's the point?' Most especially if it's been many years and no sign of them getting back in. Granted old age or handicapped people, illness, that's obviously different but I would be willing to bet most that pay and never show are probably quite capable of doing so and maybe have lost the will to be there or self-study too and therefore completely lost all desire for Masonry. That could be due to their lodge failing them just as well.
You are assuming many things. What's the point?
1) Some merely want to be associated with the organization after their raising.
2) Some want to be associated so that when they retire, they have a place they start attending at.
There are many of us still in the workforce with family activities. Lodge is sometimes 8th or 9th on the list. The fact that dues paying members don't attend is irrelevant! Be grateful for their support and stop with guilt trips based upon unfounded conjectures.
The lodge didn't fail. These brothers have their priorities straight!
 
Last edited:
Top