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Have standards really been lowered?

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I refer to them as "Title Hunters". For example, someone that joins the Knights Templar so that they can use this title but then never attend another meeting.
If they earned the title, what business is it of ours if they don't attend? The fact is, most meetings are boring as hell. Those that don't attend know it makes no difference whatsoever if they attend or not, other than not being bored.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Our SW has been a Mason for decades but was in the Air Force when he joined. He has never set foot in his Mother Lodge since he was Raised, didn't attend lodge for nearly 30 years. Now he is a PM, Hiram Awardee, white hat, and an integral part of Masonry in the area.
As CoachN said, "...priorities..."
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
If they earned the title, what business is it of ours if they don't attend? The fact is, most meetings are boring as hell. Those that don't attend know it makes no difference whatsoever if they attend or not, other than not being bored.
I understand what you are saying. I was basing this on the statement of a guy that I went through the Orders with. While going through he told the rest of us that he just wanted to be able to put "KT" by his name and never intended to be active.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I understand what you are saying. I was basing this on the statement of a guy that I went through the Orders with. While going through he told the rest of us that he just wanted to be able to put "KT" by his name and never intended to be active.
Does he pay his dues without fail?
 

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
The lodge didn't fail. These brothers have their priorities straight!
I can't necessarily agree with this. What would happen if there were no one to accept the responsibility of serving as an officer? No one to accept the responsibility of attending to the business of the Lodge? No one to work in Degrees? No one to teach candidates? We ALL have a responsibility to keep our Lodges in operation. Those who accept the benefits of Masonry but do not accept the attendant responsibilities do NOT have their priorities straight- they owe their Lodges much more than simply paying dues.
 

jermy Bell

Registered User
So, after reading a lot of the replies ,I'm confused. So some are saying that it's alright to join something, have nothing to do with it, is OK ? So I can quit going to lodge, meetings, degree work and toss my blue book in the trash, and keep my dues paid up, and I can go around telling everyone I'm a mason, because it's a cool title ? These are the people I'm talking about. And I know a hand full. It's a bragging right of theres.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
I think to develop as a Freemason, you need to be going to Lodge. I also think as a Freemason, you need to focus on your own conduct first as it is the only thing you can control. Me, I felt like in initiating, passing and raising me, I owed a debt to the lodge and only had that experience because someone had put the time into learning the lines and lessons and delivering them in lodge and coaching me outside lodge so I try to pay that debt forward to others by doing what was done for me and learning the lines and showing up etc.

So I have a debt I try to pay forward, but that does not mean everyone should do as I do and in the same way.. hopefully some follow the example, just as I did (and they are, there were only 2 PMs in the ceremony and all the other work was done by MMs) but if some dont, but still support the lodge, even if only by paying dues, I am grateful for their support and continuing commitment, even if it is not the same as others' contribution..

Freemasonry is both a team sport and individual pursuit, but it is as individual where the real work of Freemasonry is done and there is nothing to say those "sticker masons" are not doing it... perhaps simply by being a better father, person. citizen etc... but you're much more likely to apply Freemasonry with positive effect if you understand the Craft, and that understanding should be developed by lodge attendance.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I can't necessarily agree with this. What would happen if there were no one to accept the responsibility of serving as an officer? No one to accept the responsibility of attending to the business of the Lodge? No one to work in Degrees? No one to teach candidates? We ALL have a responsibility to keep our Lodges in operation. Those who accept the benefits of Masonry but do not accept the attendant responsibilities do NOT have their priorities straight- they owe their Lodges much more than simply paying dues.
I believe your questions are based in fear and have nothing to do with being qualified as a member.

I asked quite a few posts ago what the "Benefits & Rights" were and no one responded. I believe they are voluntarily enjoyed; they are not mandatory.

Responsibilities do not include "running the lodge" or "attending meetings". In fact, life takes priority over lodge activities, ALWAYS! Those who get caught up on an unfounded guilt trip are usually the ones who get most upset when others do not buy into it and who have their priorities proper for themselves.

I believe those who adequately assess membership responsibilities of the jurisdiction will come to understand that they are to continue being a good man and practice Masonic principles. Attendance or running the lodge are elective responsibilities only.

Members do not owe anything to the lodge other than what I just mentioned AND dues payments. "Guilting" anyone with what you have mentioned is counterproductive and morally wrong.

BTW - It's been my experience that those who get caught up in these guilt trips eventually get bitter and attack those who don't; this behavior drives members away.
 
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coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
So, after reading a lot of the replies ,I'm confused. So some are saying that it's alright to join something, have nothing to do with it, is OK ?
Yep. They are not doing anything wrong or not ok.
So I can quit going to lodge, meetings, degree work and toss my blue book in the trash, and keep my dues paid up, and I can go around telling everyone I'm a mason, because it's a cool title ?
You could. But tossing the book and bragging would look foolish.
These are the people I'm talking about. And I know a hand full.
And they are not taken seriously by those who do the same but actually practice Masonry in their lives. To be fair, I see attendees and officers who do a lot of bragging who go through the motions at lodge but are the worse examples of members outside the lodge than you can imagine.

If you just look at attendance and officer-ship as the ideal, you miss the point of what the organization is shooting for: Making Good Me Better!
It's a bragging right of theres.
Theirs...
 

goomba

Neo-Antient
Site Benefactor
There are active and inactive members some of each are living according to the principles of our fraternity and some are not. My lodge a business (not tyled) meeting to plan the year. Turned out lodge meeting was code of temple association meeting. After about 10 minutes of hearing issues with the building I interrupted and asked "do these things need to be fixed?" and the person said "yeah that's why we are talking about it." My reply was "well lets fix it and not talk. I didn't become a mason to talk about gutters and landscaping."

This might be why some people skip the lodge. We focus to much on the superficial stuff that really doesn't matter. I think it's probably because to many are either afraid or unable to do Masonic work and I do not mean ritual.
 

Elexir

Registered User
There are active and inactive members some of each are living according to the principles of our fraternity and some are not. My lodge a business (not tyled) meeting to plan the year. Turned out lodge meeting was code of temple association meeting. After about 10 minutes of hearing issues with the building I interrupted and asked "do these things need to be fixed?" and the person said "yeah that's why we are talking about it." My reply was "well lets fix it and not talk. I didn't become a mason to talk about gutters and landscaping."

This might be why some people skip the lodge. We focus to much on the superficial stuff that really doesn't matter. I think it's probably because to many are either afraid or unable to do Masonic work and I do not mean ritual.

Most of the mundane work here is done outside of lodge in comites and our lodge meeting focus on degrees or education and it makes for a more flowing experience. We have one economics and election lodge but these are short and is fallowed by a standard lodge meeting.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
So, after reading a lot of the replies ,I'm confused. So some are saying that it's alright to join something, have nothing to do with it, is OK ? So I can quit going to lodge, meetings, degree work and toss my blue book in the trash, and keep my dues paid up, and I can go around telling everyone I'm a mason, because it's a cool title ? These are the people I'm talking about. And I know a hand full. It's a bragging right of theres.
Agreed. This is what I am talking about.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Lodges have their own life cycle. Lodges are born, live and die.

In the US there is a great deal of resistance to seeing a lodge die. I think that's because we have a tradition in our country to grow lodges to very large size instead of a tradition of hiving new lodges whenever the membership grows over 100.

Do we "all" have a responsibility to serve our lodges to keep them from failing? I have such a responsibility. I don't get to say another Brother has. Think of the number of apprentices, fellow crafts, masters and grand masters at King Solomon's temple.

If the duty of a Lodge is to make Masons, then isn't the duty of a Grand Lodge to make lodges? Masons live and die so we have to make new Masons. The same is true of lodges no matter how much we fight against the tides.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
If the duty of a Lodge is to make Masons, then isn't the duty of a Grand Lodge to make lodges? Masons live and die so we have to make new Masons. The same is true of lodges no matter how much we fight against the tides.
Very true.
In the US there is a great deal of resistance to seeing a lodge die.
Also true. For example, a Commandery had dwindling numbers and some of the members put out feelers to merge with mine. We told them that they were welcome to do this. However, some of the long time members did not want to see their Commandery fold so they nixed the idea. Now they quite frequently have to cancel meetings because there are not enough members present to open.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
There we go, the Work defined.
That's the goal/objective. It is not the Work though.

Better "Good Men" is the result of the Work.

The Work though is something that many have no clue about. Very few have taken the time to think it through. Even fewer can describe the Work.

Far too many believe with all their heart that the Work is memorizing and doing Ritual. That's just the road map/instruction set. It is NOT the Work.
 
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