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Discussion in 'Freemasonry in the Press' started by fmasonlog, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. fmasonlog

    fmasonlog Registered User

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    I want to say that I'm proud to be a member of a fraternity where color and religion does not matter. A true mason would believe that; a true brother believes that. I just wanted to say this since I've been seeing racism, and hate towards some religions. I'm not sure how brothers are not becoming better men or where this is coming from; and especially in masonry. I love all my true Masonic brothers and something must be done towards improvement for the sake of our brotherhood.


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  2. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Racism and religious intolerance has no place in Freemasonry.... it is a simple statement but one which needs to be reiterated occasionally..
     
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  3. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    The first step is admitting their is underlying issues in freemasonry. Many brothers turn a blind eye or simply say "I did not know that was going on" as if that is an excuse. Racism is very strong in freemasonry.
     
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  4. fmasonlog

    fmasonlog Registered User

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    I'd like to travel to California and see the behavior in their lodges... I say that because the West is very mixed. Travelingman, you're correct.


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  5. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    I think you need to qualify such a statement... racism is actually pretty rare here in Melbourne Lodges in the 13 years I've been a member.
     
  6. Travelling Man91

    Travelling Man91 Registered User

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    Was it rare during the apartheid in Australia ? Why should such a statement be retracted ? Racism in freemasonry has been well known about for a long time. If the country you reside in has no racial issues concerning freemasonry Great, but I dont believe it can be said for the rest of the world.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  7. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Not suggesting a retraction, just a qualification.. I always found it interesting because the traditional version of Prince Hall's initiation occurred in a lodge of traveling white guys.... segregation in Freemasonry in the states would not have occurred if the attitude of the white men who initiated Prince Hall was reflected in the larger American society or even American Freemasonry..

    I dont think we can say apartheid was in Australia, being a South African system... but I understand where you are coming from. There were certainly places in Australia where segregation was practiced, but you just don't see large organisations like the Klan in Australia. I've actually tried to do a bit of work trying to find Australian Indigenous people in the Craft pre 1900. The task is difficult because they tended to be given fully westernised names. I cannot find any 19th Century First Australians as Freemasons.. but I am still looking. By far, the highest profile Australian Indigenous Freemason I am aware of is Sir Douglas Nicholls KCVO, OBE (1906-1988). He was Initiated Lodge Antoc in 1954 and a leader of National significance. 1954 was long before "multiculturalism" and a very conservative time in Australia (but conservatism is different from xenophobic, we've been through xenophobic times, probably most notably at several points between 1850-1900.. and WW1 & WW2),

    Australia has a very mixed record on "race". We have the "stolen generation" where kids were removed from parents and placed into institutions and fostered by white parents. It's typical of westernised white people and institutions seeing people of other skin colours as inferior. We also had the "White Australia Policy" which made it hard for non-Brits to move here.. it used a language test.. We had anti-chinese race riots on the Gold Fields and also anti Chinese laws and special entry taxes for them. Chinese Freemasons are easier to track because they often kept their Chinese names. Mei Quong Tart (Mei Guangda) (1850–1903) was initiated in Lodge of Tranquility in 1885. He is one of several who were initiated prior to 1900, but even then "William Robert George Lee" who was initiated on 18 August 1890 was actually a Chinese man who had westernised his name.

    I would say Freemasonry in Australia was a place where races did mix, but neither could I say it was a Utopia of racial harmony... but I would say the strongest and most wide spread prejudice in Australia was around Irish Catholicism, but even there, our first Privy Councillor, William Bede Dalley QC (1831-1888) was born to Irish Convicts and a Catholic (Initiated Lodge of Australia 1858). Class and race and colour just dont work in Australia of the 1800's exactly the same as in other parts of the world.. but while the most wide spread, it is without doubt our indigenous peoples who suffered the most due to racism, followed by the Chinese, but they also were the largest single immigrant non-british group in a place like Tasmania.

    Its interesting stuff, but racisim in Freemasonry is generally a lot more subtle in the 1800's in other places and a lot more blatant in America. Indeed, several historians has suggested the British Empire often used Freemasonry as a link between occupied (India esp) local leaders and Empire by initiating locals of high standing.

    India is a place where the Raj often had a sense of racial superiority, but some of the Q&As there are very interesting... http://www.masonindia.in/index.php/faqs-on-indian-freemasonry/

    It would make a great book.. one day I might write it...
     
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  8. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Very true!
     
  9. fmasonlog

    fmasonlog Registered User

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    I describe them as fanatics or extremists. And some, just plain ignorant.


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  10. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    I'm a guy from religion. Am I a devil as well?
     
  11. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Just checking - Are you aware that we don't take atheists? As such all of us have religion in some way.
     
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  12. fmasonlog

    fmasonlog Registered User

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    I just read his posts... he's not a mason.


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  13. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Thanks for noticing. I have set to ignore his posts for the moment. I'll check later. I often relent on that.
     
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  14. Bro Asad

    Bro Asad Premium Member

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    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  15. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    How do people feel about the constant censorship here?? . it grates me. I dont want to be critical of admins, I want to be constructive, but I really do dislike it when content is sanitized , especially in the middle of a conversation. It happens here quite frequently and I wonder if others notice... I understand why profanity might get removed, but even that would stay if I was a mod.. I'd rather that "That's inappropriate for a forum of Freemasons representing the craft" than delete it. For multiple reasons, I dont use my "real' name on the web, but I am actually quite well known as "Bloke", (and Melbourne Mason) and always stand accountable for my posts- I would say I don't use my online names as a tool to abuse .... I still remember the (interesting but heated) thread which saw a member banned, but what really got my goat (nod to Coach) was they way it was decimated by removing content. For me, someone saying all religious people are devils is freedom of speech and its up to use to sensibly address it and for readers to draw their own conclusions.. Not only as a Freemason, but also as a person, I have a great respect for people of all faiths and the only time I have a problem with it is when others try to impose their religious values on others, but others have very different views... that does not make them bad people but just different. I really wonder why such an essentially innocuous post got removed... or is if an account gets deleted, the content goes as well ?
     
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  16. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    Constant censorship here? Could you please provide specifics? I'm looking through the moderator logs and virtually all of the posts removed are penis enlargement supplements or porn. Often times we get requests from people asking for their comments and or entire posts to be removed and we usually honor their request. There was a guy the other day who raised a stink about us offering different membership tiers and his post was removed. Other than that, I don't see where the "constant censorship" is occurring. I don't recall banning someone due to language either unless it was directed at another member.

    One of the features I dislike the most on this site is the ability for users to edit their own posts. When it wasn't available, members weren't very happy but when it's enabled, they can take back what they originally wrote or completely blank out their posts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
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  17. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Thanks Blake. I like the edit post feature, I am always making spelling corrections to my own posts :) sometimes I have also edited to make sure meaning is clear, but once its quoted I leave it along, but I can see how the edit post might be abused and people would not be a fan of it...

    Above in this thread there is a quote and user who is gone...

    ugurano said:

    but most guys from religions are devils, but not all


    it's quoted but the original post is not in the thread. I am 75% sure it was in this thread the quote came from. The other one I am thinking of was the thread where Bro. John L. Hairston and another member got into a bit of a flame war, someone removed a lot of content including material I'd written..

    The specifics are water under the bridge but I've noticed it enough for it to register.. but I'll admit "constant censorship" is an overstatement on my part...
     
  18. Bro Asad

    Bro Asad Premium Member

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    Apologies for removing my post. I felt it inappropriate to display my response on the website for a couple of reasons
     
  19. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    Still, on occasions one can be a bit premature (or even misguided) in a comment and be glad to delete it.
     
  20. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Thanks for solving the mystery....
     

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