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Necessity of a Tyler

LAMason

Premium Member
The degree was put on in full. Don't know why it would require a dispensation.
In Louisiana 5 (used to be 7) are required to conduct any business, so it would have required a special dispensation from the Grand Master to put on a degree with only 3.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
In the jurisdiction I was raised in the tyler doesn't have any lines, the JD says them. However, in other jurisdictions I've seen the tyler speak. Yeah I to have seen and filled in many seats to open and close.

I am a member of a jurisdiction where the tiler has no lines. I am also a member of a jurisdiction where the tiler does have lines. Very similar words spoken by a different officer. That sort of variation happens often jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

Traditionally the Tyler was paid a fee and did not need to belong to the lodge

My mother lodge in California does this. The tiler is (or was) an elderly brother who liked being in lodge buildings chatting with brothers. He donated the pay to charity.

If I may deviate a bit from the topic, is anyone familiar with 'tyling from within'? It is commonly done here if circumstances permit so the Tyler can observe what is happening in the lodge room.

This was approved as a change in the ritual during the time I was actively moving through the line in 2 of my 3 jurisdictions. Not sure how many US jurisdictions have the open yet but I think it's a lot of them now. Once the meeting is open the tiler is invited to tile from within. He takes a seat in the doorway or very close to the doorway.

Has anyone here ever seen a lodge opened with the minimum number stated I the ritual? Particularly the MM?

In California and Illinois the GL supplies standardized bylaws to their lodges. Lodges can change various details. The standard document gives 7 as the quorum to open any meeting. So in those two states it would take a dispensation to open with the ancient minimum number for an FC or MM degree. I have been at meetings with the minimum for the quorum and a small number of meetings were we failed to reach quorum.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
In our Ritual the Tyler has no 'lines' - he is outside the Lodge when the Opening starts. When Opening in the First Degree the Master asks each Office-bearer his place in the lodge and his duties and each answers - except the Tyler. The Junior Warden answers for him.

If I may deviate a bit from the topic, is anyone familiar with 'tyling from within'? It is commonly done here if circumstances permit so the Tyler can observe what is happening in the lodge room.
In my lodges after the opening of the lodge the Tyler is invited in.
 

montkun

Registered User
There were 15 at my raising representing multiple lodges, but I know 7 is the minimum to conduct business in my lodge. I don't remember the Tyler having any real parts of any of my degrees other than watching the door from the outside. Since he's "outside" of the meeting, he's not considered present to anyone other than the Junior Deacon. If I understand that duty correctly.
 

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
There were 15 at my raising representing multiple lodges, but I know 7 is the minimum to conduct business in my lodge. I don't remember the Tyler having any real parts of any of my degrees other than watching the door from the outside. Since he's "outside" of the meeting, he's not considered present to anyone other than the Junior Deacon. If I understand that duty correctly.
To which Grand Lodge do you belong?
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
We all know the number of Masons required and of whom they consist when convening a lodge of MM, or FC, or EA. Yet, in these lists, the Tyler is absent. At the same time, he is central to the first great care in Masonry. Here, we seem to have a conflict.

I'd like to see a discussion around this conflict and the thoughts of the brethren.
They don't have the Musician called out either, which, as a lodge officer, is not explained -- even though he is a part of the activities within the lodge AND Music is espoused in the staircase lecture for obvious reasons. <sigh>
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I just pulled out my monitor and it is interesting to note that the MM degree requires officers who are not of those and those alone that are required, particularly the SD. Not to mention, I think you'd have one hell of a hard time carrying out the third section with only the number required.

I think what it really boils down to is that over time, the order went from a secret society who only were accountable to the old charges to one with bylaws and far more rules but who didn't want to give up the old ways. I'm sure at one time it was basically "keep Fred on the lookout. Oh, it's only us? Okay, well then keep your voices low". At some point in time, the obligation changed to include the part about being beholden to the Grand Lodge. From that time forward, things got complicated. No longer could the rules simply be what was in the obligation, they then extended to whatever the GL said. It puts us all in a weird position of swearing to an open ended set of rules.
Excellent response Bro.!

The assumption that the Society is a continuation of Stonecraft Lodges is false and can be proved to be so. The GL era created a theatric franchise using scripts steeped in Stoncraft lore and tradition, but not its reality. This is why SO many things don't make sense. The writers of the scripts didn't come from the Stonecraft world and had to go on documents that, for the most part, were misunderstood by them due to cultural differences between the two worlds. The obligations of stonecraft were taken, rewritten and added to for GL Franchise purposes. All connections to Stonecraft are romantic notions based upon fabricated GL fantasies. There were no old days! But our scripts must be maintained as such to keep the illusion alive. That's the nature of good theater... The show must go on!
 

Lazza21

Registered User
In UGLE Three Rule a Lodge, Five Hold A Lodge, Seven or more make it perfect. The Tyler is responsible for preparing candidates and informing those
inside the Lodge of late arrivals and more and the presence of the prepared candidate. I am about to take up the post of my Lodge meeting in London having served my year as IPM. Many Lodges have paid Tylers as he doesn't have to be a Lodge member.
 

Mike Martin

Eternal Apprentice
Premium Member
I think that so far in this topic there has been a very heavy focus on opening a Lodge to Initiate, Pass or Raise Candidates. That is not the only work of a Lodge, they are also opened for other business such as the education of the brethren ie Lectures and presentations of various types.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
We all know the number of Masons required and of whom they consist when convening a lodge of MM, or FC, or EA. Yet, in these lists, the Tyler is absent. At the same time, he is central to the first great care in Masonry. Here, we seem to have a conflict.

I'd like to see a discussion around this conflict and the thoughts of the brethren.

MM, FC & EA - all masonic "ranks". Tyler is not a rank it is an office. When opening, with the "perfect" amount, we might have a Deacon or an inner guard, but they are not mentioned when describing a lodge as "perfect"... hence I dont see a conflict myself because the statement to which (I think) you refer is about the experience of the brethren rather than the office (Although, here it is the Master, two wardens and a number of FCs and EAs which make a lodge "perfect".

Here the tyler has lines at the door when candidates for degrees are admitted and also on the opening of the lodge. (It's based on Emulation for those curious). Here, the JW describes his Jewel and duties.

Yes, we have opened with a "perfect" number for business (which is conducted in the first degree not in the third like many of our American Brothers). For a degree, a perfect number in the lodge would be too few... but we like a challenge and I am sure could pull it off....
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
MM, FC & EA - all masonic "ranks". Tyler is not a rank it is an office. When opening, with the "perfect" amount, we might have a Deacon or an inner guard, but they are not mentioned when describing a lodge as "perfect"... hence I dont see a conflict myself because the statement to which (I think) you refer is about the experience of the brethren rather than the office (Although, here it is the Master, two wardens and a number of FCs and EAs which make a lodge "perfect".

Here the tyler has lines at the door when candidates for degrees are admitted and also on the opening of the lodge. (It's based on Emulation for those curious). Here, the JW describes his Jewel and duties.

Yes, we have opened with a "perfect" number for business (which is conducted in the first degree not in the third like many of our American Brothers). For a degree, a perfect number in the lodge would be too few... but we like a challenge and I am sure could pull it off....
I was referring to the specific officers required for a lodge of various degrees. Although, it might be different in your jurisdiction.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Sorry Hanzo, it was late and there is two subtle streams in this thread - your very clear question and some bros who appear to me to be thinking of what appears in Emulation's 2nd degree tracing board lecture "Three rule a Lodge: five hold a Lodge: seven or more make it perfect. The three that rule a Lodge are the worshipful ..."

I probably can't contibute much to this thread without a ritual book in hand... i'll check a few when i get home and i suspect your question will become clearer.

* crawls back into box for more sleep *
 
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