Need your thoughts

[Bloke]

Tempted to start with a wise crack about "I have this friend who has a friend" but I dont. I have a problem...

I have this friend who has a friend (LOL) who wants to join Freemasonry. He has put him onto me as the go-to guy. I've spoke to him on the phone, nice guy, seems to want to join for the right reasons, etc. The man who referred the potential candidate to me is a Bro, so that's good, but has not known him for the required period of time (12 months here). This is all very normal stuff for me, I've been involved in this a lot. I don't know him, so I can't propose him. We have a mechanism through GL to deal with that via interview and the man will be proposed by dispensation. Our current WM of my mother Lodge came into the Craft like that, as did many others I have contact with. All business as normal for me.

Here's the problem. He does not want to tell his wife. His background is Pakistani and his wife has "village thinking" where Freemasons are evil villains. He's explore it tentatively with her, but got no where so he's dropped it... His proposed plan is to join and then tell his wife with first hand knowledge that we are a-okay. I've said to him, the mantra here is Family First, Work Second, then Freemasonry. With that, I would not personally propose a guy who did not have his wife's support because if we damaged a marriage or family where it was such an obvious risk, well, we'd be completely doing the wrong thing - and that's not what Freemasons do. I've told him he should talk to her. I've told him when GL interviews him, they will probe about this to make sure a potential candidate has the support of his wife. At face value, he's not the sort of guy who would lie, but he is an intelligent salesperson who could easily steer a conversation away from a topic that will put him on the rocks.

I'm thinking he needs to intro his wife to some Freemasons. We've got some events they could come along to. He's not keen. He likes his plan. I don't because it exposes his relationship with wife to some level of risk. Enough said.

We don't let Petitions progress if they will be blackballed, but I am not sure I would vote against him because we are grown ups who need to take responsibility for our own decisions and I think of my mentor who wanted to join Freemasonry when he was younger and it was "next year when i am Master" from the guy who was going to propose him and it did not happen for another 25 years and he always regretted being denied that time in Freemasonry..

A strong thought is to invite them to a function, try and find some Pakistani Freemason to host them, but that's more easily said than done, because the lodges concerned, while both having Indians and Sri Lankans, do not have Pakistanis in them. I simply do not have the time to invest in getting to know his wife and sorting this out....

Should I be encouraging this guy ? He's very keen to become a Freemason. Given he meets the landmarks and other requirements well and easily, and prima facie has the character of a Freemason, do I have a right or responsibility to protect him from himself, if there is even anything to protect? After all, who am I to judge how he should run his marriage...

My advice to me would be to advise him to either get her consent, or put his marriage first, but that's really sitting badly with me because he might not get to do something which made me a better man an improved my relationships, including that with my partner.. If I was WM, well, I think I would tell him to obtain his wife's consent or he's positioning himself to fail in Freemasonry and as a husband; but I am not in a position where I need to make that call, I am an advisor not a decision maker in this.

What are your thoughts on the above ?

 

[Ripcord22A]

While I agree that it does help to have the support of the wife....I know how middle easterners are, if he wants to do something his wife has no say in it. If she's a "Village Thinker" then going against his desires isn't an option.

There are plenty of Freemasons whose wives want nothing to do with it.

 

[goomba]

"Harmony being the strength and support of all institutions...."

Doing something without the consent of a spouse is a gray area. But doing something they are fundamentally opposed to and hiding it from them is not gray (to me).

 

[Ripcord22A]

"Harmony being the strength and support of all institutions...."

Doing something without the consent of a spouse is a gray area. But doing something they are fundamentally opposed to and hiding it from them is not gray (to me).

I agree comma, however, hes a Pakistani, they roll differently then we do. In their cultural the wife is a piece of property she has no say in anything the man does or wants to do. No im not saying he rolls that way but that is how their cultural is. The fact that hes going to tell her at all is a step in the right direction.

 

[Bill Lins]

"Harmony being the strength and support of all institutions...."

Doing something without the consent of a spouse is a gray area. But doing something they are fundamentally opposed to and hiding it from them is not gray (to me).

I agree- smacks of deceitfulness to me.

 

[Bloke]

I agree- smacks of deceitfulness to me.

He's from England really. Speaks perfect English. I think the problem is she's brought the conspiracy story, but I would never consider an action like he proposes, I'd be telling my partner... but Rip is kinda onto something... his different course of action might be cultural. It's why I mentioned his heritage rather than he's from the UK. I've also not mentioned religion, but it's in the mix ( lots of his faith in our lodges, some in both Lodges concerned) but again, it's not like we intro people in their lodge using religion as a point of reference) but if we were talking fundamentalist Christian who worked in a Church where a wife should obey, where would we be ? In such a church wives still have opinions husbands should consider.

I guess it's *is* a black and white issue, but I don't know which side is black and which side is white... Using my judgement (judging) or relying on his. Yep. That's the crux of the problem..

 

[dfreybur]

In all of my jurisdictions the candidate's wife must know and approve. One of the duties of the investigation committee is to make sure of that. Keeping it from his wife is not an option in my jurisdictions - If he does that the committee is supposed to return a negative recommendation.

Have the couple attend some social events. Allow the regular discussions of lodge good work activities to prevail on her.

 

[goomba]

I agree comma, however, hes a Pakistani, they roll differently then we do. In their cultural the wife is a piece of property she has no say in anything the man does or wants to do. No im not saying he rolls that way but that is how their cultural is. The fact that hes going to tell her at all is a step in the right direction.

True different cultures have different customs. But to continue what I originally said "more especially this of ours" and "And although your frequent appearance at our regular meetings is earnestly solicited, yet it is not meant that Masonry should interfere with your necessary avocations, for these are on no account to be neglected" and "If, in the circle of your acquaintance, you find a person desirous of being initiated into Masonry, be particularly careful not to recommend him, unless you are convinced he will conform to our rules; that the honor, glory, and reputation of the institution may be firmly established, and the world at large convinced of its good effects."

When handling membership issues we should always use our opinion as we are guardians of our fraternity.

The above is only my opinion on the matter and I have no heartburn if any brother disagrees. It is their right as Master Masons to form their own practices within Masonry as they see fit. Each of us use the working tools and knowledge to keep building our fraternity. All the working tools but more especially the trowel.

*all quotes are from Duncan's and not grand lodge specific.

 

[Brother JC]

The first time I considered joining I mentioned it to my wife... did NOT go over well, so I dropped it. The level of disharmony would have been incredible.
After we divorced one of the first things I did was start the quest again. Was Raised less than a year later.

 

[Bill Lins]

He's from England really. Speaks perfect English.

I can't see how that is relevant to this discussion. As posted earlier, we are NOT in the business of breaking up marriages. Unless he can be forthright with his own wife, I could not in good conscience, recommend, much less approve his petition.

 

[Warrior1256]

I've said to him, the mantra here is Family First, Work Second, then Freemasonry. With that, I would not personally propose a guy who did not have his wife's support because if we damaged a marriage or family where it was such an obvious risk, well, we'd be completely doing the wrong thing - and that's not what Freemasons do.

This is my feeling.

I've told him when GL interviews him, they will probe about this to make sure a potential candidate has the support of his wife.

The investigative committee from my mother lodge requests that the wife be present when they interview prospective candidates.

 

[Warrior1256]

My advice to me would be to advise him to either get her consent, or put his marriage first,

This would be my advice, just my humble opinion.

 

[afrah]

And I would just be happy if my husband was a Mason. I would have helped him in all. I'd make him sandwiches, him and his brothers when he went to Lodge. For me, the masons is the noble knights.