No Women in the Frat but Could we Share our Rituals

Discussion in 'The Voting Booth' started by rhitland, Sep 9, 2008.

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Can we Share Rituals with Women?

  1. Yes

    9 vote(s)
    11.3%
  2. No

    30 vote(s)
    37.5%
  3. Not only No, squash the Women talk

    41 vote(s)
    51.3%
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  1. jhodgdon

    jhodgdon Registered User

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    Yes it is wonderful and I respect you for your strongly held convictions. See, we can get along! 

    ---------- Post added at 09:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 AM ----------

    Interesting point Brother. I don't know what the GLoT says but I believe that over here a brother can be obligated on his choice of Volume of Sacred Law, including the Talmud, Veda, Koran etc.
     
  2. bgs942

    bgs942 Premium Member

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    If a Brother is obligated on one of the above mention books do the words change to specify that specific volume, text, book. The beauty of faith is that there are many kinds.
     
  3. jhodgdon

    jhodgdon Registered User

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    I would think so. I've never personally seen a degree done on anything except a Bible. And I completely agree. What makes our fraternity so great is that there IS such a diversity between personal beliefs/faith but yet we all still meet as Brothers
     
  4. Bro. Bennett

    Bro. Bennett Premium Member

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    Yes, we will always get along and perhaps even one day order the same dish in the Feast in the Great Beyond.... Be Blessed....
     
  5. jwhoff

    jwhoff Premium Member

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    Brethren all. It's not different over here or over there. It's not our differences as masons we celebrate. It's our brotherhood as God fearing men hoping to make this world a better place for our having been here.

    Let us approach the holy alter of freemasonry, the place of masonic light together, as one.

    The three great lights in masonry:
    * The Holy Bible
    *The Square
    *and Compasses

    One man's Holy Bible is another's Koran, Torah, Vedas ... all's sacred scriptures.

    Now, that said. Please let us practice a little free association:

    sacred (holy) scriptures ... the Word...the promise
    Square (as taught to us in higher degrees) ...the earth ... the physical being
    Compasses (as taught to us in higher degrees ... the heavens (ether) ... the spiritual world

    This analogy has been the route of all monotheistic religions throughout history. For those of us who have ever worn a college graduation ring, it's known as mind, body, spirit (written in Latin.) It is the similarity we can most all agree upon.

    Let us agree to focus on our similarities and leave the differences to the profane world. We can watch that crap on Fox News and MSNBC on those evenings we aren't blessed enough to attend lodge or simply watch a movie with the wife and kids.

    God bless this fraternity, whose wisdom has graced the centuries, and all my brothers who faithfully, with knowledge, and wisdom practice the craft,

    Just a few thoughts for an ole' Cajun boy living and dying in 3/4 time over here in the western parishes and Houston's rush hour traffic ... jwhoff
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  6. jhodgdon

    jhodgdon Registered User

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    Well said Brother.
     
  7. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    Here's what the GLoT has to say about it:

    "Art. 397. (434). Religious Belief.

    A firm belief in the existence of God, the immortality of the soul, and the divine authenticity of the Holy Scriptures is indispensably necessary before a candidate can be initiated, but this Grand Lodge does not presume to prescribe any canonical books or what part thereof are inspired.

    It is the policy of this Grand Lodge to permit a candidate whose religious persuasion is based upon other than the Holy Bible to be obligated upon the book of his chosen faith, and same may be situated upon the Altar in front of the Holy Bible during the conferral of the three degrees of Masonry.

    In which event, all esoteric references to “The Holy Bible” during the conferral of the degree(s) and the lessons appropriate thereto shall be substituted with “The Book of your (my) Faith.”
     
  8. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    With regard to your Masonic Brethren, this is patently untrue, Brother. While we customarily have a KJV Bible on the altar in most Lodge's in the U.S., it is the individual Brother's chosen Volume of Sacred Law that is referred to in the portion of the EA obligation you mentioned. The Lodge is not a church. It has no "official" religious doctrine. Indeed, it should be plain that Freemasonry's roots are in the thought that the differences between this or that religion should not be cause for contention of any kind. The Old Charges make this point explicitly, of course, but when one considers the cultural conditions during "The Enlightenment", the rise of a society that sought to codify and teach the notion that there is a set of moral truths that transcend any one religion and that it is pointless to fight over the rest, was almost inevitable. It is no coincidence that the dominant religious authority at the time violently sought to suppress that notion, just as it is no coincidence that those cultures that have continued to hold on to the idea that moral authority can come from only one version of "religious truth", (one book, if you will), have remained backwards and bitter.

    We are taught to circumscribe our passions, to keep them within "due bounds". Nowhere is this teaching more important than when it regards our passion for the observance of our individual faith. Theocratic authority, the citation of this or that collection of religious lore as the basis of rule and law by which everyone must be bound, is the antithesis of such circumscription and it has no place in Freemasonry. Again, or order is founded on the explicit notion that there are moral truths that transcend any one religion. As Masons, we are charged with continuously pursuing and refining our understanding of these moral truths just as much as we are taught to pursue and refine our personal relationship with the GAOTU.
     
  9. Beathard

    Beathard Premium Member

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    Well said.
     
  10. bgs942

    bgs942 Premium Member

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    I do not disagree with and respect the fact that there are many faiths and texts that support them. My point is and was that there is but one Holy Bible (all translations included) and if that is the text that one was obligted on and the faith one claims/practices, as men and Masons we should walk a closer line to our faith and guide setting the highest example. My original point to Bro. Bennet's comment was that I too have issues with some....not all.....but some Brothers that claim a book and faith walk h yet show practices/behaviors that are far removed from both. If a Brother's belief is only in the acknowledgement of the existence of a power higher than one's self but does not practice faith of any kind, then there is no relevance to my point. I have seen my entire life and in the time since I became a Brother in this great and ancient Fraternity of ours, those that claim a high faith and practice but show things differently in their actions. I strongly believe in the right for all peoples to walk and believe in what ever power they choose whether or not it is the one I have chosen. I also have the same belief relevant to prayer in school.....let students pray to what ever Deity they believe and those who don't, don't. I do so love and respect the sharing of ideas, opinions, and otherwise!
     
  11. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    Actually, that would make for several editions (not "one and only one") of the Xtian Bible, each with a slightly different version of "the complete and unerring word of God". Yes, we're splitting hairs here, but that's exactly the point. All the "other stuff", over which mankind has quibled, argued, or even fought wars over, that stuff that the profane would use to set "the other" apart, or more precisely, beneath himself, is that which we, as Masons, are to avoid other than as regards our own spiritual path.

    No argument. The particular spiritual path a Brother choses is not our concern. That he walks it faithfully and honestly, is. Again, that walk is his to make. As a Brother we can celebrate his advancement along that path and, as best we can, we can provide guidance when he strays, but the steps are all his to make.

    Again, we agree. In fact, most of the Masons I know do a poor job of observing all the tenets of their chosen faith, if for no other reason than that they are simply ignorant of those tenets. As their Brother, do we not have at least some responsibility to understand spiritual task our Brother has set for himself and to assist him where we can? To be sure, our cable tow is only so long; we are not talking about "saving the world" here, only having the love and respect to gain at least a fundamental understanding of the challenges he has set for himself.

    Hey, weren't we supposed to be talking about women, and ritual, and stuff?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  12. bgs942

    bgs942 Premium Member

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    The beauty of debate is sometimes it leads where it leads. ;-)
     
  13. Traveling Man

    Traveling Man Premium Member

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    In the August 1920 issue of “The Builder†we find an interesting read about Female Adoptive Rite Masonry.
    Phoenix Masonry The Builder Online.
    By the way Phoenix Masonry has some very educational tools and resources as well.
    Note: My Hyperlinks show in colour without any hovering!
     
  14. jwhoff

    jwhoff Premium Member

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    I see your point Brother bgs942. Professing a faith or creed without living by its standards is hypercritical. I too see many folks who don't appear to be living by what they preach. As far as masonry is concerned, it all goes back to guarding that west gate. We must take our duties on investigating committees seriously.
     
  15. jwardl

    jwardl Registered User

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    Would be weird referring to a woman as "brother" though...
     
  16. Heirophant

    Heirophant Registered User

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    WOW. Phoenix Masonry. How contraversial...like I've been saying for quite some time...How do we know there aren't Female Masons already in existence? Doesn't Hillary Clinton have a Phoenix Lapel Pin? This post was originally about Females and Freemasonry. We should get back to the original post.
     
  17. Traveling Man

    Traveling Man Premium Member

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    And that's what I tried to do...
     
  18. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    Hillary a Mason? Not surprised- I've more than once wondered from which side of the plate she swings. :wink:
     
  19. jhodgdon

    jhodgdon Registered User

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    Hahaha
     
  20. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    Nice.
    :bored:
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
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