No Women in the Frat but Could we Share our Rituals

Discussion in 'The Voting Booth' started by rhitland, Sep 9, 2008.

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Can we Share Rituals with Women?

  1. Yes

    9 vote(s)
    11.3%
  2. No

    30 vote(s)
    37.5%
  3. Not only No, squash the Women talk

    41 vote(s)
    51.3%
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  1. Nate Riley

    Nate Riley Premium Member

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    Thank You!

    For those of you who are for this, are there women who are putting pressure on you or asking why they can’t do it?

    I have known quite a few women who know or are related to Masons, and I have never heard met on that wanted to be a Mason. Likewise, I have know plenty of women, who wanted to "infiltrate" the man's world, whether it was being allowed to join Augusta National or go to the “men only” BBQ that the Optimists put on (my sister being one of the type). And I have never heard one of them say, what I really want to do is join a Masonic Lodge.

    My point is I can’t imagine that many women actually want to join, so why are some Mason’s wanting it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2009
  2. MGM357

    MGM357 Registered User

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    We might need to take a moment and remember a small part of our obligation. My brothers this is how buildings crumble and ships sink, with small cracks in the foundation. Didn't we all promise and swear...
     
  3. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    i'll go with a big no here.

    no mason today can share the ritual, anyway, and not break the obligation.
     
  4. MGM357

    MGM357 Registered User

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    No Mason today, tomorrow, or yesterday. My Brothers the wisest of men created this Fraternity. The obligations that we have taken were created for the Fraternity to be everlasting. Our rituals should NOT be share with anyone, except it be a true and lawful BROTHER. Not a wife, mother, sister, daughter, or any other form of a female!!
     
  5. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    This is exactly how I feel. As far as the ones that say no because this is a Fraternity I don't agree with that. Our organization "The Grand Lodge of Texas AF&AM" is the fraternity but Masonry is a lifestyle. Bigger than any Frat would imagine. I believe everyone, man, woman, and child, should be taught the beliefs in Masonry but the rituals, probably not. I also won't be up in arms if women started an org like our blue lodge. I mean lets be honest the ritual is out there. I have seen it about 3 times in the past week. Not to even mention the countless books and websites that have it. In time if an orginization of women have a ritual similar to ours and have similar requirements ask for our recognition would this be a bad thing to recognize? I say no. We are all on this planet together and if they have the same requirements and the same teachings why wouldn't we?

    Note: I am not advocating telling the ritual to a non-mason but why would we have to when it is there anyway?
     
  6. HKTidwell

    HKTidwell Premium Member

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    How can you have the same requirements and teachings if the base elements have to be changed to conform to a new group? As has been mentioned before in this thread there is a thing called co-masonry it is considered clandestine. In my opinion the support for creating/recognizing them is against so many of the things that we must always be cognizant of. I won't get into how but all you have to do is remember back to things you have learned.
     
  7. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    What I am saying is every year all the GM's from all the jurisdictions meet and one of the things they discuss is recognition of new jurisdictions that have done what is required to be mentioned. A committee makes recommendations to the GMs on whether or not they meet the requirements for Recognition. What I am saing is every organization that we currently recognize had to be approved at sometime. If a group of women went to Amazon.com and got rituals that are similar to ours and began teaching "masonic" beliefs and etc. and met the criteria of an organization to be recognized why would we stop them? Because they are women? I think that is a very bad answer. Can a woman's mind not behold the "secrets". I mean it is way bigger than any mode of recognition or how we initiate a candidate. We are talking about sybolism and making the world a better place by making each other better. Why would we stop a woman from taking it upon herself to use resources that are already there to make an organization that does great things just like us?

    I am not talking about co-masonry but an all woman lodge. No men. The only requirement that would change it is a woman not a man. I just see a problem. I guess it is true that all MEN are created equal. Just not women.
     
  8. MGM357

    MGM357 Registered User

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    In my eyes, lipstick on a pig doesn't make it any prettier!! In the case, CHANGE is not a good idea!!

    The women already have a Masonic organization without men. The Social Order of the Beauceant. Their rituals are not revealed to any man in Masonry. Our Commandery meets in the same building with ladies and not one of us know what they do.

    Why don't we just sit back and enjoy what Masonry has to offer and stop trying to change it all the time. I hope when/if my son decides to desire light in our Craft and becomes a true and lawful Brother, he can relish in the same traditional values that have been bestowed upon myself and all Brothers before him.
     
  9. Nate Riley

    Nate Riley Premium Member

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    Right on! One of the great things about freemasonry is that it is ancient.
     
  10. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    To say we have an ancient riual that has not changed I disagree with. Texas' Masonic Ritual has changes several times. The teachings beliefs and symbols are ancient. Texas rituals used to be based on LA then they were changed to match that of TN. Even at late as the 1950's ritualistic words have been changed by the Grand West to meet recomendations of various committees.

    I am not saying anything about changing the ritual or beliefs in my previous posts. I never said we should let women in the door to sit in a lodge with us. All I am saying is if an organization meets our criteria as a masonic organization why would we not allow them to be recognized? Trust me I do not think the teachings or ritual need to change at all and I think that is what you are seeing on this site. No one wants the core of masonry to change but what some people want to change is the administration (lack of a better term) side. The part that that was changed to begin with.

    I ask because I do not know:
    As far as SOOB is that not a christian based organization with it being a part of the York Rite? So would a non-christian woman be able to join? Would her husband have to be in the York Rite?
     
  11. MGM357

    MGM357 Registered User

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    SOOB is christian based beliefs. They are Knight Templars wives, mothers, daughters, sisters, etc. The Templars, you have to claim Christ as your savior. You can be York Rite and still not be in the Commandery. So, I guess York Rite Mason's wives, who are not Christians, can belong to the OES. If I'm wrong, please someone straighten me out.

    I'm just having a hard time understanding why the thought of sharing our rituals with anyone besides another brother Mason.
     
  12. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    Brother I truly believe we are saying the same thing. I do not think WE (GLoTX) should start and share our rituals with anyone. I am just merely saying if there was an ALL woman org that is like SOOB but open to ALL women of any faith and it was started by women that used resources that are there to have similar rituals and they go through the correct due process to be recognized I would not have a problem with them being recognized as a all women masonic organization. We (GLoTX) should NOT give our rituals away.

    Does this make sense? I am not for "Sharing" our rituals period. But there are ways out there for people to get them without having someone from GL to teach them.
     
  13. RedTemplar

    RedTemplar Johnny Joe Combs Premium Member

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    I will not be present at nor give my consent to any such notions of including women in our rituals.
     
  14. HKTidwell

    HKTidwell Premium Member

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    My thought is this thread was started with the comment about sharing our rituals with women. A few agreed with this principle while many did not, now it is becoming a conversation about well not our rituals but the rituals of another organization. To be honest I do not care how the OES or SOOB handles their meetings or membership as long as it does not reflect poorly upon us. If the OES would like to open their organization up to women of all faiths (I don't think it is limited to a faith) or members then so be it.

    Freemasonry as I understand it is based upon Men. The goal as I see it is to make us as men better people by symbolism, tolerance, and understanding. If we have not accomplished that goal 100% why take on anything else. Now some might argue that with that mentality then why do we recognize any of the other organizations or do charity work. To be honest I can see how the other organizations tie in with that goal. One of the important things in Masonry is Family. I can also see how the charity work is a result of masonic principles. I do not see how worrying about people who have no tie to freemasonry, ties in. This is like saying that we need to make all good men Masons. How does that tie into what we are doing? Let us focus on ourselves and our craft to make it better then it currently is.

    Let us dedicate this time to being a beacon that draws men in. We have dwindling numbers as it is without worrying about things that do not matter. Lets worry about being full masonic brothers with the PHA, instead of just recognizing them, lets worry about purging the lodge of bigotry, lets worry about instilling more of a desire to pursue symbolism, lets worry about taking care of our buildings and websites or any number of more important items, instead of things that have no baring on our craft due to many things you have already learned.

    I hope nobody takes this in the wrong light. This is strictly my way of seeing this topic because I see so many things that could be done that are not. I mean we can't even get lodges to update the information on the GLoTX website (this references a comment about some lodges not updating information that was used). How hard is that? I know I'm rambling I just don't see this as being a high priority with so many little and some big things needing attention. Please do not take this as being directed at anybody or any comment, it is strictly my take on this. :behindsofa:
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2009
  15. fairbanks1363pm

    fairbanks1363pm Registered User

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    why are we so worried about having women in masonry? my wife loves when i have lodge for 2 reaons. 1st she doesnt have to cook, 2nd she gets me out of her way. in different topics several have expressed our fraternities traditions and history an the value of not changing. This is a huge change. I think we need to focus on masonry as the worlds greatest fraternal organization get the word out and stop trying to appease everyone.
     
  16. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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  17. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    You would. Stir the pot Blake. And to think I was at peace. :13:
     
  18. scottmh59

    scottmh59 Registered User

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    woman in lodge= cleaner lodge room?
     
  19. Traveling Man

    Traveling Man Premium Member

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    Basically “they†already exist, “we†choose not to recognise them, or the fact that they exist. “They†perceive that “we†have “the†perception/recognition problem. Their grand lodge laws are quite “liberal†while ours are quite “antiquated“ (as in antiquity, meant as a double entandre ). Mixed lodges exist also, but can and do have their problems just as ours.
     
  20. Wingnut

    Wingnut Premium Member

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    DOH! Someone went there!
     
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