Recommending Comasonry

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by JJones, Jul 9, 2017.

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  1. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    No, co-masonry is part of the masonic family, almost all co-masonic orders have their orgins as male only.
     
  2. Roy_

    Roy_ Registered User

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    "Irregular" to your organisation perhaps, "clandestine" not. Let's reserve that term for organisation that are only after people's money, while other may very well be "otherwise regular in their workings".

    Netherlands.

    Odd-Fellows are a whole different game. The difference between "regular" and "irregular" is usually relatively small, far smaller than between FM and Odd-Fellows. The rituals are roughly identical (not more different than between "regular" lodges from different GL's (or even within one GL in some occasions), but the organisation does not (for example) explicitly require the belief in 'something higher' or explicitly forbid the discussion of religion or politics and only that is what makes them irregular. In 'my case', my organisation allows the initiation of women, but for the rest, the way we work is almost exactly the same as that of "regular" lodges. This is not entirely true in the Netherlands though, since our most-used ritual is based on Emulation, while the rituals of the (regular) Grand Orient of the Netherlands have their own history. Both both are obviously FM and nothing else.
     
  3. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    We who make these recommendations use clandestine to refer to comasonry.
     
  4. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Co-ed Fraternal ?

    I put an answer into the poll thread and cause I am lazy will cut and paste.

    Generally, I answered yes, I would recommend a woman to join a Female or Co-Masonic order, and have often done so. I also mention Eastern Star and Amaranth.... but that's not helpful to strangers. Their only option "irregular" group here ("irregular" being a subjective, not universal but widely and frequently consistently defined word) is Le Droit humain (LDH) , and we only have two lodges working in a city of 4.6 million people.. I'd actually be very sad to hear of LDH demise here; it is quite weak and could use the members ! HOWEVER, I would not recommend a male to them, unless he, after explanation, objected to "us" being a male only fraternity, then I would send him to LDH.

    If my partner wanted to join, I'd ask her to try OES first.. but if she wanted to join LDH, there is no way I would object... to do so opens me to double standards, I want to be a member of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons (or what ever your local regular GL is called) and I cannot see how I would have any right to object to her joining any lawful group which she wanted to join... oh, unless it is the local swingers group... :)

    Le Droit Humain would not allow hazing, I would say if part of LDH international, you're on safe ground recommending them.
     
  5. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Years ago I was on another boards with Bro Karen. She gave me a much better understanding of regularity. It's wonderfully short, and if you have not read it before (and I am sure many of you would have) read her "I am Regular" essay http://beacon190.ca/2017/02/11/i-am-regular/

    Back to the topic. Firstly, to the casual reader, I will say Freemasonry is not a Religion, its a Fraternity, but I will use a Religious analogy to explain my view on "Freemasonry" which I see as a broad term like "Christianity". Within Christianity you have Catholic and Protestants, and within Protestantism all sorts of groups like Anglicans, Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Pentecostals etc etc. All have some shared beliefs and are Christians but also have their own beliefs, traditions and history. So it is with "Freemasonry". As a respectful and open minded man, I would not say one Christian Church is more valid in society simply because I subscribe to it and not others. Just as I believe in Freedom of Religion, I also, for want of other phrase, believe in Freedom of Freemasonry. To show a lack of respect for others masonic traditions is bad manners and in much the same way I am cautious in showing a lack of respect for any Religion which is not a scam designed to fleece people.

    Indeed, just as traditions like Buddhism and Hinduism have informed by Christian journey and understanding, so is it with other masonic traditions which have informed and supported my masonic journey in what is broadly regarded as "regular Freemasonry". I am confident enough in the Traditions and merit of my Grand Lodge so as not to be threatened by any other - even if it happened to be larger or more popular, which to date, is not the case...

    Just as I respect those who walk another Religious Path, I afford a similar respect those who walk another Masonic Path.
     
  6. Zack

    Zack Registered User

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    " live and let live"
     
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  7. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    re: Recommending Comasonry...

    I don't "recommend" or even "suggest" Freemasonry in any form to anyone. It is something that either attracts a person, or not.

    However, should a person be interested in its many varied organizational manifestations, and there are quite a few variations upon its theme, I have no problem letting them know what I know about them, sans the usual "secret" stuff that has nothing to do with the interests of the person being served.

    Even if that person expresses an interest in knowing the "secrets", I tell them straightforward that he or she shall walk away severely disappointed in what is shared if that is the only interest in joining.

    I've said this before. There are no "secrets" as most people understand the word. There is only information considered peculiar to each version of Freemasonry and that information is not as peculiar to each as most would want you to believe.

    As far as providing any information that will eventually lead to assumed "secrets" being revealed, I call "shenanigans!" Anyone ignorant enough to believe my sharing information with someone interested in organizations other than my own will in any way, shape or form violate my obligation even indirectly is playing a guilt game that has no bearing upon the real world or my obligations.

    I would much rather a person walk into an insane asylum understanding its dangers than to have that person walk into one not realizing there are dangers and be unaware of them as they interact with the inmates and staff. Each person will soon enough discover what is peculiar to that institution and what is not.
     
  8. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    True.
     
  9. Bill Lins

    Bill Lins Moderating Staff Staff Member

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    Hogwash. To begin with, the word "brother" BY DEFINITION refers exclusively to those of the male gender/sex. Even if a woman undergoes sex reassignment surgery/treatment, she cannot EVER become a "Brother". Likewise, anyone with the most basic understanding of the Latin language knows that the word "fraternity" BY DEFINITION refers exclusively to a group of males.

    Secondly, "regularity" in the Masonic sense refers to both the origin and the practices of a purportedly Masonic body. To what body does Karen belong? How was it formed? Is it recognized by any truly regular Masonic body? What are its specific practices? Under the rules of MY Grand Lodge, it is not and can never be regular as it allows women to be members. It may indeed be a wonderful organization and she may indeed be a wonderful person, but she is not and will never be a "Brother" or a "regular" Mason.
     
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  10. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    Sorry but this annoys me a bit for some personal reasons.

    So you mean that a person who has undergone a full transition, has a male name, looks male and is considerd a man by most people would not be welcomed as a brother?
     
  11. goomba

    goomba Neo-Antient Site Benefactor

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    Does brother refer to gender or is it a title of the fraternity?

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
     
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  12. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    This one I'd have to say no on. Being gay is one thing but once a woman always a woman.

    Sent from my LG-H918 using My Freemasonry mobile app
     
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  13. goomba

    goomba Neo-Antient Site Benefactor

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    100%

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  14. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    What if I go to the zoo and paint black and white stripes on a horse? Does that make is a zebra? What if most of the zoo visitors consider it a zebra because it looks as acts like one?
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  15. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    I think "Brother" is a title. For most of us, it means a male Freemason, regularly initiated into Freemasonry but that is not the sole use of the word in a masonic sense, but many other groups have a different definition.. Karen is a member of The Honorable Order of American Co-Masonry. Her body is not the only one which applies the title to woman; for instance, so does the Honourable Fraternity of Ancient Freemasons (HFAF). Used by such groups, I think "Brother" is a bit like "All men have equal rights" - men being not gender specific.

    I think Karen makes the point "Regularity" is a subjective term. She made it so well as to get a prize from a group associated with UGLE.

    Make make no mistake, I am a BIG believer of regular Freemasonry (as we define it) being a Fraternity and hence being male only. However that does not mean the traditions of groups like Co-Freemasonry and HFAF are invalid and I have certainly learned a lot from members from such groups. I respect them. I think the HFAF is not a fraternity, but a sorority, but many such organizations which we regard as "irregular" have rich traditions and whose members share many of our ideals and are just as passionate about their masonic bodies as we are about ours. Many of their members are more "masonic" in their conduct and attitudes that some of the brethren in my lodges.. I respect that. Just as I respect your right to your opinion Bill, even though I don't subscibe to it; that's one of the beauties of Freemasonry, it looks to what unites men, rather than what divides them.
     
  16. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    How many times have we told you to stop doing that?
     
  17. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Some would find the exclusion of non-Christians to be annoying.

    Depending on the jurisdiction, yes, one must be born male and identify as male.
     
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  18. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    I believe as a mason it's our obligation to abide by the laws of our lands, in my country and many countries it's possible for men to transition to women and vise versa and legally be recognised as such.
    Much like the requirement for belief in god, it's your word that you are a person suitable for membership in a fraternity.
    Just my 2c
     
  19. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    I can't remember, do most petitions say born a male or man or boy or whatever? Just curious. If so, that sort of nips this in the bud. If it just says you must be a man or something like that, then really, you'd probably never even know the difference lol. If that person identifies as a man and you don't know the difference, perception is reality.
     
  20. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Yet one more Craft fundraising option... :D
    If you seriously studied the trivium, you'd have learned well 1) that words take their meanings within context, 2) that definitions are not universal, and 3) that meanings are specific to their assigned application. Your definition argument is weak.
    Unless, of course, it were to do with a title and not a gender agenda.
    See dismissals two responses up in this epistle.
    Ah! If only that were true.
    1) doesn't matter. 2) doesn't matter. 3) doesn't matter. 4) doesn't matter.
    Fortunately for them, that doesn't matter.
    Fortunately for them, your opinion doesn't matter either.
    You're mixing apples with orangutans. A title assigned within any one organization reflects "membership status and/or office" and not state of being.
    Yep.
     
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