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Should EA and FC pay dues?

K.S.

Registered User
Being in California, I think it is a good idea to have EAs and FCs pay dues. It gives them a sense of belonging, it brings them closer to the craft instead of sitting on the outside looking in. Someone who pays dues is more likely to come to lodge and participate and be active, than one who is not paying dues.
To me, it will be different holding stated meetings in the first degree. I haven't wrapped my head around that one completely, but at the same time, I've always been a believer that a man is indeed a member of a lodge after his initiation, not at his raising.
 

CajunTinMan

Registered User
No I don't think so. They are on a jorney to determine if this is for them. I don't think they should pay until they commit to the fraternity.
 

rmcgehee

Registered User
I have two more thoughts since beginning this thread.
By changing the rules and making them pay dues you are making them commit to completing what they started.
By the same token,by GL changing the rules you are breaking the contract between Lodge and Brother by changing the terms of the contract.
What do you think?
 

cutter2001

Premium Member
If they have to pay dues regardless perhaps they will be a bit more motivated to learn the work of the degrees and not pass into EA oblivion?
 

K.S.

Registered User
I was against it, but after sitting down with our lodge secretary, and being brought up to speed with the details, I got onboard with it. It will be a bit tough for the existing EA's but outside of the initial sticker-shock, new candidates won't know any better.
It was told to me several years ago, by a member of an outlaw MC, when I asked him about prospects paying membership dues to get berated and treated like garbage, he said that if they weren't paying dues, they wouldn't have a reason to stick around and participate.
The same can be said of EA's who don't come back to lodge or contact the lodge, they just disappear. If they were paying dues, there would be more of an incentive to make more of an effort to participate, or at least before they petition, check Masonry out a bit further to make sure it is something they really want, (or if they just caught "National Treasure" on the spike channel over the weekend.)
 

Roy Vance

Certified
Premium Member
I did not have to pay "DUES" until I was raised to the Sublime Degree of a Master Mason. All the other fees I paid were just that, fees for each degree. Luckily, now I do not pay dues, thanks to my younger brother, who is also a member of the Lodge and the one who gave me my petition, bought me an Endowed Membership for my birthday.


Fraternally
Roy Vance
Jr. Warden
Phil Head Lodge #1415
Carlsbad, Texas
Jr. Deacon
San Angelo Lodge #570
San Angelo, Texal
 
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rmcgehee

Registered User
Just a update on collecting dues on EA and FC. Of the 45 on our books 2have paid.We will wait the required amount of time and suspend them.Some have moved out of state,some have lost interest,some are probably dead.Grand Lodge will get their per-capita tax and that will put an end to it.
We should have gone after these guys but they also have some responsibility.They need to fish or cut bait!
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
What do you think the reason for the difference in opening in the first in Canada in the 3rd in America?

Stated meetings in the first degree and charging dues to EAs and FCs has been the worldwide standard since the early years of the Grand Lodge system. It's all of the rest of the world not just Canada.

The US changed away from the worldwide standard about 1840 during the rise of the Anti-Masonic movement. The change was made to make it a bit more difficult for pretenders to get into the meetings were we allocate the money. Some men of that decade did petition and take their EA degree intending to get into meetings to expose the lodge's spending practices. The effort needed to advance to MM was enough to filter out those who were not sincere about the craft.

For the change about 1840 read about the Baltimore Convention. In the US 1840 was a very long time ago. It happened before many of our GLs were founded. Brothers who aren't history hobbyists and/or who haven't visited outside of the US might never learn that it was ever any other way. (I'm a history hobbyist).

There's been a movement to move back towards the worldwide standard among the US GLs in the last decade. Most now allow EAs in Stated meetings with one variation or another. California is a late adopter. I saw the positive effect it had in Illinois and talked the delegates of my California lodge into voting for it.

I favor making EAs and FCs members. Charge them dues and let them vote. I favor this because it's the worldwide standard. I know that each GL is sovereign and may diverge from worldwide standards as it wishes, but when diverging from a worldwide standard I want to know why and if the reason is still valid. In the US the why is the Anti-Masonic movement of the 1840s and the reason had lost validity long any of my great-great-grandparents were born. My opinion based on history reading.

If this change flushes some EAs off the books who have been listed for many years, I think that's a book keeping issue that should happen anyways. My opinion based on much less justification and reflection.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
It is a worldwide standard that EAs pay dues. It is implied that charging dues would mean EAs expect to get votes.

Knowing that all of this having to do with third degree business meetings came out of the Anti-Masonic movement of the 1840s, and knowing that my calendar shows we are no longer in the 1840s, I have long felt that we need to justify not following the worldwide standard. "We have always done it that way" does not cut it for me in this context.

Who's going to put forward that legislation? It's not a topic I have passion on. I know the history but I'm not driven by the issue.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
EAs get full voting rights in subordinate Lodges. Further, since Dec 2015 comminication - EAs, FCs and MMs can vote at GL. Not sure I am keen on the latter as it changed the voting pattern from warrants to number of members per lodge. Producing one PM per year mean each lodge got a new vote per year (and if recycling PMs it cancelled that canceled the new vote out), now one lodge of 140 member can outvote 6 lodges of 20 members..
 

The Traveling Man

Registered User
EAs get full voting rights in subordinate Lodges. Further, since Dec 2015 comminication - EAs, FCs and MMs can vote at GL. Not sure I am keen on the latter as it changed the voting pattern from warrants to number of members per lodge. Producing one PM per year mean each lodge got a new vote per year (and if recycling PMs it cancelled that canceled the new vote out), now one lodge of 140 member can outvote 6 lodges of 20 members..

What is the minimum time someone must stay in the EA in your Jurisdiction? Do EA's receive a dues card? Can they hold an office? In America the minimum time is 30 days per degree. So you're only in the first 2 degrees for 60 days. I believe that's why we include the dues in the degree fees for the 3 degrees. It's assumed that you will take all 3 degrees that year. So you could look at it like we pay a portion of the dues as an EA and as an FC. But EA's and FC's (in America) aren't always considered "Full Members", cannot vote, don't receive a dues card, and don't hold offices. So if a Brother here stayed in the EA for over a year I'm not sure if he should be required to pay, or pehaps just not the same amount, as someone who is a full member.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
What is the minimum time someone must stay in the EA in your Jurisdiction? Do EA's receive a dues card? Can they hold an office? In America the minimum time is 30 days per degree. So you're only in the first 2 degrees for 60 days. I believe that's why we include the dues in the degree fees for the 3 degrees. It's assumed that you will take all 3 degrees that year. So you could look at it like we pay a portion of the dues as an EA and as an FC. But EA's and FC's (in America) aren't always considered "Full Members", cannot vote, don't receive a dues card, and don't hold offices. So if a Brother here stayed in the EA for over a year I'm not sure if he should be required to pay, or pehaps just not the same amount, as someone who is a full member.

Not less that 12 weeks must pass before being passed. Not less than 52 weeks must elapse from initiation before doing your third. We don't have dues cards (although we do have membership cards, but you only need them at 1/4ly and to get into one secure masonic centre). We never check them. They are fairly new. An EA cannot hold office. A MM cannot be installed in office other than steward until 52 weeks after being raised. It is unusal to raise a FC 12 month after initiation - they need to do a Masonic Advancement Program (MAP) and we only meet 11 times a year (at the moment, my busiest lodge has 6 candidates, we will do double initiations to get them through, but you can actually do a quad 1st, triple 2nd and double 3rd. You can farm out your seconds and thirds to other lodges - but at the moment that seems hard as few lodges are not busy. It often takes a 18-24 months to get raised. Our last third, the guy had been initiated 3 years before, and had been skipped over due to not attending.
 
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