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UGLE Gender Policy

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Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
My view is that if an individual whom I believe to be a woman is present in a tyled lodge, I must respectfully retire.
Same here.
f the number of brothers that feel displaced by this ruling out number the number of brothers that benefit from it by one, then it is not fair. And it was was not carried out fraternally.
I state again, the consequences of this action will far out weigh any benefit from it.
Agreed!
 

darsehole

Registered User
Lodge isn’t church-
The biases you carry and explain away under religious grounds arnt relevant in Masonic policy-
Keep in mind the the VSL on the alter isn’t always your VSL

No, it isn’t Church. It’s a religious fraternity based on events that happened while building a temple to the GAOTU, in which every member must believe in a Supreme Being, and where the religious text, or VOSL is literally the center of lodge.

The word of GAOTU, in any form, is the greatest light in Freemasonry.

As I clearly stated before, the ONLY VOSL I can think of that would encourage this behavior is The Book of the Law on Thelma.

If there are others, I’d be happy to learn about their stance on gender variance.


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David612

Registered User
No, it isn’t Church. It’s a religious fraternity based on events that happened while building a temple to the GAOTU, in which every member must believe in a Supreme Being, and where the religious text, or VOSL is literally the center of lodge.

The word of GAOTU, in any form, is the greatest light in Freemasonry.

As I clearly stated before, the ONLY VOSL I can think of that would encourage this behavior is The Book of the Law on Thelma.

If there are others, I’d be happy to learn about their stance on gender variance.


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Yes and no-
Freemasonry requires its members to believe in a supreme being but being religious isn’t a requirement-
These are quite different things.
So no freemasonry isn’t a religious fraternity per say.

There is indeed a VSL at the alter, in the room there are also some rocks, som random paintings and at the alter there is also a crude picture of a tie fighter from Star Wars- that’s how it would look if you only take what you see literally as just about all things in that room are allegorical why would the VSL be different?
This is of cause a rhetorical question-
 

darsehole

Registered User
Yes and no-
Freemasonry requires its members to believe in a supreme being but being religious isn’t a requirement-
These are quite different things.
So no freemasonry isn’t a religious fraternity per say.

There is indeed a VSL at the alter, in the room there are also some rocks, som random paintings and at the alter there is also a crude picture of a tie fighter from Star Wars- that’s how it would look if you only take what you see literally as just about all things in that room are allegorical why would the VSL be different?
This is of cause a rhetorical question-

Do you consider the VSOL just another piece of furniture, or do you consider it one of the three great lights in our fraternity?

Which is held between our hands when we recite a obligation to the fraternity.

We don’t get to pick and choose what parts we like and don’t like.

It’s the VOSL. The written word of GAOTU.




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David612

Registered User
Because we take oaths on it. Are my oaths also allegorical? (I'm not taking a side on this by this comment)
The VSL is emblematic of truth, virtue and the will of the GAOTU-
The dogmatic teachings within a specific VSL are relevant only to the individual mason who is a member of that faith-

It is indeed a great light and like the other 2 great lights they too are allegorical.
 

LK600

Premium Member
The VSL is emblematic of truth, virtue and the will of the GAOTU-
The dogmatic teachings within a specific VSL are relevant only to the individual mason who is a member of that faith-

It is indeed a great light and like the other 2 great lights they too are allegorical.

If you added the words... "To me" it would then be accurate.
 

David612

Registered User
If you added the words... "To me" it would then be accurate.
To expect Freemasonry to start forwarding the dogma of all faiths under its banners would be absurd-

That said you are of course welcome to your opinion but when people start pushing their religious beliefs in the guise of Masonic principals it does the craft a disservice, not to discredit anyone’s religious point of view- it’s just not freemasonrys point of view.
 
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LK600

Premium Member
To expect Freemasonry to start forwarding the dogma of all faiths under its banners would be absurd-
That is an argument you and I have not stepped into as of yet. It appears to be directed t0 another argument upstream maybe? My discussion is with your apparent belief that the VSL is nothing more than a prop... like... to use your words, rocks, pictures, and drawings. The VSL has meaning in and of itself regardless of who's version it may be. It is not an emblem of anything; it is itself. If it was a prop... an emblem for something else, our oaths would be meaningless, or worse, a mockery of the real thing.
 

David612

Registered User
That is an argument you and I have not stepped into as of yet. It appears to be directed t0 another argument upstream maybe? My discussion is with your apparent belief that the VSL is nothing more than a prop... like... to use your words, rocks, pictures, and drawings. The VSL has meaning in and of itself regardless of who's version it may be. It is not an emblem of anything; it is itself. If it was a prop... an emblem for something else, our oaths would be meaningless, or worse, a mockery of the real thing.
Well the oaths arnt literal are they?
Any given VSL has intrinsic value to a Brother who subscribes to that faith-yes that’s true-but not all Masons are Religious but are instead spiritual and while meeting the requirements for admission they don’t have a VSL persay as a result any given holy book substitutes.
Additionally would I be erroneous to say that not all members of a given faith take what is written in their VSL to be literal?
 

David612

Registered User
Do you consider the VSOL just another piece of furniture, or do you consider it one of the three great lights in our fraternity?

Which is held between our hands when we recite a obligation to the fraternity.

We don’t get to pick and choose what parts we like and don’t like.

It’s the VOSL. The written word of GAOTU.




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That’s the religious interpretation not the Masonic one.
 

LK600

Premium Member
Well the oaths arnt literal are they?

Sir, with every additional post I'm getting more confused lol. So the VSL is a prop and your obligation isn't real? Look, it doesn't really matter I guess, you do you. I'm pulling you off the topic of the thread anyway. Peace.
 

David612

Registered User
Sir, with every additional post I'm getting more confused lol. So the VSL is a prop and your obligation isn't real? Look, it doesn't really matter I guess, you do you. I'm pulling you off the topic of the thread anyway. Peace.
Those are your words not mine-
 

LK600

Premium Member
Those are your words not mine-

Then I'll just quote yours...

There is indeed a VSL at the alter, in the room there are also some rocks, som random paintings and at the alter there is also a crude picture of a tie fighter from Star Wars- that’s how it would look if you only take what you see literally as just about all things in that room are allegorical why would the VSL be different?

Well the oaths arnt literal are they?

Like I said, you do you.
 

David612

Registered User
It seems some take their oaths more seriously than others.

And some take the VOSL for what it is, and not a “book of obscure guidelines”.


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I take my obligations very seriously and to call into my fidelity because i disagree with your pushing a religious agenda thinly veiled as a Masonic one is quite silly.
Keep in mind that there are those whose spiritual beliefs have a cold deistic slant for example and they are every bit the mason anyone else is.

Consider the question asked:
What is freemasonry?
I’m sure you remember the answer.
 
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darsehole

Registered User
I take my obligations very seriously and to call into my fidelity because i disagree with your pushing a religious agenda thinly veiled as a Masonic one is quite silly.
Keep in mind that there are those whose spiritual beliefs have a cold deistic slant for example and they are every bit the mason anyone else is.

Referring to the VOSL as a piece of furniture, suggesting that our obligation should not be taken literally, and insulting a MM because he protests your obvious disregard for both the VOSL and the obligation, is not taking your obligation seriously, IMHO.

At least not as seriously as some.

The craft has not thrived for over 300 years by reciting meaningless words on some book that looks pretty on the middle of the room.

It has been built and maintained by Men of strong moral fiber, whose belief in a Supreme Being and a obligation to one another is un faltering.

Many of those men still take their literal obligation, on the written word of GAOTU quite seriously.

More seriously than others.


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