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What is the difference between af&am and f&am?

BullDozer Harrell

Registered User
Nothing actually matched up but I get told you'll understand later but later never comes
Are you still affiliated with this organization, sir? I can help you if you desire to resign your membership and be done?

I can explain away the mix-up in any information you've probably been given about their claims to have been authorized by the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Liberia to operate in your State.

It's absolutely false and we can discuss why, if you like?
 

BullDozer Harrell

Registered User
Id like to know

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Brother Ripcord, you're in the next class. I have just some general Masonic info regarding Regularity, its definition and standards test to discuss with this guy.

You're aware of this stuff already.

Maybe later i'll come across some info specifically about his organization in Maryland which he assumed to have had a fraternal relation with the Prince Hall Grand Lodge there.
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
Brother Ripcord, you're in the next class. I have just some general Masonic info regarding Regularity, its definition and standards test to discuss with this guy.

You're aware of this stuff already.

Maybe later i'll come across some info specifically about his organization in Maryland which he assumed to have had a fraternal relation with the Prince Hall Grand Lodge there.
Oh i thought u had some info on why that "gl" claims Liberia as its mother "gl"

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BullDozer Harrell

Registered User
THANK YOU! I knew something was off. But is there a way to get this fix me and my wife have spent a lot of time and money I rather try help rather than run off if it's a situation to be fixed
Go to the webpage and click the tab that says subordinate lodges.

You probably won't see any lodge by the name of Zerubbabel.

Also, in fact, you won't see any Grand Lodges operating under the authority of the Grand Lodge of Liberia.

Regular Masonry does not work like that. Never has since the organization of it in the early 18th century.
http://www.grandlodgeofliberia.org/pages1.php?pgID=37#

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ccampbell

Registered User
Hello Brother Kyle, what i meant was, there are both F&AM and AF&AM Grand Lodges here in America for the Mainstream Brethren. as far as I know, there is no difference in legitimacy or recognition based solely on 3 or 4 letter designations for Mainstream. for african-american freemasonry, there IS a difference. a Black AF&AM grand lodge is almost automatically clandestine, a Black F&AM grand lodge is not. all the recognized Prince Hall Grand Lodges are F&AM. i hope i made it a little more clear than before.

Will.
"Brother" I must ask you where do you get your information? Your statement that a Black AF&AM Grand Lodge is automatically clandestine is spreading false information. To elude that PHA is in some way more legitimate than a Black AF&AM GL is ridiculous. Also to assume that PHA and other GL which have Black members are somehow limited to that makeup is making an assumption that is also false. Why do you assume that there are no white PHA? Why do you assume there are all Black AF&AM GL which are clandestine simply by their makeup of members? Please ,clarify your position based on truth and based on provable information and not something derived from long tainted word of mouth interpretations and racist perspectives.
 

MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard
Premium Member
"Brother" I must ask you where do you get your information? Your statement that a Black AF&AM Grand Lodge is automatically clandestine is spreading false information. To elude that PHA is in some way more legitimate than a Black AF&AM GL is ridiculous. Also to assume that PHA and other GL which have Black members are somehow limited to that makeup is making an assumption that is also false. Why do you assume that there are no white PHA? Why do you assume there are all Black AF&AM GL which are clandestine simply by their makeup of members? Please ,clarify your position based on truth and based on provable information and not something derived from long tainted word of mouth interpretations and racist perspectives.

Simple question. What Black grand lodge do you know of that is regular? The statement was directed to grand lodges in the US. There are only 2 regular grand lodges per state in the US unless a grand lodge is in exile like in California. There are not 2 regular grand lodges in every state though.
 
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ccampbell

Registered User
what is a Black Grand Lodge? What is a white Grand Lodge? Since when does Masonry separate like that? A Grand Lodge is legitimate if it has a Charter or dispensation from a grand body or competent jurisdiction empowering it to work. That's all that's required. Are you claiming PHA?
 

ccampbell

Registered User
I am not. I only ask if you were because you are spouting about Black GL and there is no distinction in a Mason if you are practicing right. We are on the level regardless of lodge affiliation. The only thing that matters is if you are operating with the S&C together with a charter or dispensation from a Grand Body empowering you. To do otherwise is not Masonry
 

MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard
Premium Member
I am not. I only ask if you were because you are spouting about Black GL and there is no distinction in a Mason if you are practicing right. We are on the level regardless of lodge affiliation. The only thing that matters is if you are operating with the S&C together with a charter or dispensation from a Grand Body empowering you. To do otherwise is not Masonry

Where did you see me spout anything about Black grand lodges other than asking you a simple question that you still have not answered?
 

ccampbell

Registered User
I answered all your questions and will do so again. I’m reading the thread. To claim a Lodge is not regular because it has black members seems out of line. That’s the reason for my trial. If I am attributing someone else’s comment to you, accept my apologies.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
"Brother" I must ask you where do you get your information? Your statement that a Black AF&AM Grand Lodge is automatically clandestine is spreading false information. To elude that PHA is in some way more legitimate than a Black AF&AM GL is ridiculous. Also to assume that PHA and other GL which have Black members are somehow limited to that makeup is making an assumption that is also false. Why do you assume that there are no white PHA? Why do you assume there are all Black AF&AM GL which are clandestine simply by their makeup of members? Please ,clarify your position based on truth and based on provable information and not something derived from long tainted word of mouth interpretations and racist perspectives.
Sticking my nose in here, may I ask your GL?
Would you agree that all PHA in the US are F&AM?
 

ccampbell

Registered User
Please make sure you have a basic understanding of the issues before you accuse someone of being racist.
http://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com/2016/10/addressing-clandestine-freemasonry-why.html?m=1
There are literally thousands of Black clandestine grand lodges. It's a serious issue for Prince Hall (PHA) grand lodges. They are clandestine.
Please make sure you have a basic understanding of the issues before you accuse someone of being racist.
http://freemasonsfordummies.blogspot.com/2016/10/addressing-clandestine-freemasonry-why.html?m=1
There are literally thousands of Black clandestine grand lodges. It's a serious issue for Prince Hall (PHA) grand lodges. They are clandestine.

Brother your tone is defensive and aggressive. I’ve already stated if I confused your reply with another’s, I apologize. Beyond that you aren’t accepting me as a Brother and are out of bounds.

Now, if you wish to further the dialog let me know otherwise I will leave you in peace.
 

ccampbell

Registered User
Sticking my nose in here, may I ask your GL?
Would you agree that all PHA in the US are F&AM?

Yes, Brother. I hail from MW Hiram Abif Grand Lodge for the State of Indiana. AF&AM. Founded 1962
General Grand Masonic Congress Founded August 9, 1899.
 
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