Women Freemasons

Discussion in 'The Voting Booth' started by Blake Bowden, Sep 7, 2008.

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Should women be allowed to become Freemasons?

  1. Yes

    21 vote(s)
    8.7%
  2. No

    205 vote(s)
    85.1%
  3. Doesn't matter either way

    15 vote(s)
    6.2%
  1. Kalip78

    Kalip78 Registered User

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    Brethern,

    This is statement issued by United Grand Lodge of England on 10th March 1999. The second sentence is very interesting. It seems that it’s “not about women†from UGLE perspective. In the light of this statement I would say that Order of Women Freemasons (http://www.owf.org.uk) is masonic body even if not recognised by male GLs and the Grande Loge Féminine de France (http://www.glff.org/) is not as it follows irregular teaching of Grand Orient de France…

    UGLE’s statement:

    There exist in England and Wales at least two Grand Lodges solely for women. Except that these bodies admit women, they are, so far as can be ascertained, otherwise regular in their practice. There is also one which admits both men and women to membership. They are not recognised by this Grand Lodge and intervisitation may not take place. There are, however, discussions from time to time with the women's Grand Lodges on matters of mutual concern. Brethren are therefore free to explain to non-Masons, if asked, that Freemasonry is not confined to men (even though this Grand Lodge does not itself admit women). Further information about these bodies may be obtained by writing to the Grand Secretary.

    The Board is also aware that there exist other bodies not directly imitative of pure antient Masonry, but which by implication introduce Freemasonry, such as the Order of the Eastern Star. Membership of such bodies, attendance at their meetings, or participation in their ceremonies is incompatible with membership of this Grand Lodge.

    source: http://www.sussexmasons.org.uk/about-freemasonry/women-and-freemasonry.html


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  2. brother josh

    brother josh Registered User

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    It is a BROTHERHOOD love my women to death but u got the star if u choose to join a faternal order


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  3. ej6267

    ej6267 Registered User

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    As much as I love my wife, and we've been together for 33 years now, now that I am retired I am grateful that there is one part of my life in which she cannot share. When I go to Lodge, she stays home.


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  4. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    If you're a jerk then so am I. I am not in favor of this. I joined Masonry for a variety of reasons, one being that it is a fraternity. If women were to be admitted to the lodge then I would demit.
     
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  5. admarcus1

    admarcus1 Registered User

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    I don't understand why anyone has a problem with comasonry. If it is not for you (or for me, which it isn't), no one is asking you to join it. They are not trying to co-opt you lodge, and they are not asking for recognition. It is a completely separate organization that operates separately and is just different. Unlike some clandestine organizations, they are not trying to trick anyone or take people's money. Thry are doing something very much like what we do, but because they depart from Landmarks we deem important, we do not recognize them masonically. Other than that, we are completely unaffected. To some, a male-only environment is not important. Great. If it adds something to their lives, that is a wonderful thing. If they are learning and finding happiness, and becoming better people at the same time, God bless 'em.
     
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  6. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    I think many Brothers have misunderstood the conversation. Women joining our lodges isn't the point, women having an option is.
    Remember that the first female Freemason (that we know of) was initiated more than two centuries ago.

    Carry on...
     
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  7. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    You misunderstood my comment. The way I understood the question was should the rules be changed making women eligible to join ALL Masonic lodges. This I am 100% against. If the question was refering to those unrecognized co-mason lodges that already exist then I don't care one way or the other.
     
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  8. admarcus1

    admarcus1 Registered User

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    My bad. That is what I get for answering without looking and thinking first. Clearly, I did not subdue my passions! Thank you, Brother, for pointing out my error.

    I agree that I would keep things the way they are. I grew up in a very feminist household and believe men and women should be equal in all things. However, I do think there is value in an all male environment, especially one that is not focused on sports (bit of a joke there). I do encounter a lot of sexist attitudes within Masonry, but I think that is a function of generational change, not a function of it being all male. I think there is room for changes in attitude without coming even close to changing Landmarks.
     
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  9. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I agree with you brother. I am not sexist or anti-women by any means. I think not only should women be treated as equals but that they ARE equals. However, I see nothing in the least wrong with fraternities or sororities. But for some reason many people see something wrong with fraternities, feeling somehow that this is sexist. However, I have never heard anyone criticize sororities as being sexist.
     
  10. masson

    masson Registered User

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    .... A man free born etc. just saying ;-)
     
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  11. Roy_

    Roy_ Registered User

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    However I'm irregular I receive the journal of our regular Grand Orient. In it they also publish articles of people of Le Droit Humain and in the prelast issue of this year there is a call of a Belgian Freemason for what he calls "universal Freemasonry". I have said it a couple of times before, but in the Netherlands we have one, major, regular male only organisation, the Grand Orient of the Netherlands. Belgium has several male only orders, only the smallest of which is regular. The author of the article is a member of the Grand Orient of Belgium, the biggest, male-only, order. He describes how much he dislikes orders/obediences and wonders why there can't just be a "universal Freemasonry" with a much smaller role for the grand lodges/orients. In Belgium all but the regular order allow their lodges to decide themselves who they allow to visit, being member of other male orders, mixed or women-only. Some orders allow their lodges to decide if they require the GOATU and use the Bible or another book. The author would expand this to the question who a lodge wants to initiate and all this under one umbrella, a bit like the Grand Orient of Austria or Lithos who have male, female and mixed lodges.
    (For your information, in the Netherlands the different orders are not hostile towards eachother as you can see that the Grand Orient publishes texts of other orders, but we can't visit eachother officially.)

    However some see my precence on this forum as co-Masonic proselytising, I do not entirely agree with the man. I think regular Freemasonry should stick to the Landmarks. Good/better relations with other Masonic organisations is sometimes in place and of course it would be nice if Freemasonry would be less splintered, but I think that organisations that do not hold up the Landmarks should work under another umbrella.
     
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  12. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Exactly! As I said before, no one accuses a sorority of being sexist and I don't know of any men clammering to join one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
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  13. twhaley67

    twhaley67 Registered User

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    Nope, no girls allowed!
     
  14. jwardl

    jwardl Registered User

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    I love women in general and one in particular -- and ladies are just as capable of practicing the precepts of Masonry as men are. That being said, I'm not in any hurry for us to start accepting them. This isn't misogyny or anything even close. Rather, look at police and military training -- as well as some of the finer paid schools. The attendees are separated by gender. This not only helps both sides focus on higher pursuits rather than that rather striking member of the opposite sex, but at least with us men, the fact is we carry ourselves differently when ladies are present -- even if they're merely friends or relatives.

    In addition, in modern society, we men rarely get to immerse ourselves in the rituals and mental relaxation that comes with the company of other men. We've also, over time, become somewhat feminized and confused about what it means to BE a man because we're lacking for role models and the mutual re-enforcement of definitive behaviors that our forefathers experienced. Just think: how many of you didn't actually FEEL like men until you were much older -- or still don't?

    This is part of the benefit of being a Freemason. Introduce women, and it's lost. Not to mention the necessary changes we'd have to make to our esoteric rituals that I can't go into here in an open forum. As they currently stand... well, that wouldn't work :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
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  15. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    I vary between two positions:

    - Freemasonry is so important that the GAOTU restricted it to men
    - Freemasonry is so unimportant that it does not matter that half of the human race is excluded.
     
  16. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    I like the clever comparison, but bridle at the suggestion that God had anything to do with founding Freemasonry. And, your definition of freemasonry as male only is not one that all accept, as the discussion shows. However, this won't stop me from using the second clause as a quip!
     
  17. Kalip78

    Kalip78 Registered User

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    To be honest I have no problem with the second position... The first one is false at its roots - Freemasonry isn't God's institution, it is human in every aspect.
     
  18. jwardl

    jwardl Registered User

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    My girlfriend is on the fence about Masonry, as she doesn't care for any group that excludes others, whatever the reason. Fortunately, she simultaneously supports my membership and associated goals.

    As I see it, every group has requirements of their members -- a de facto exclusion of those who don't meet those requirements. So long as that exclusion isn't hate-based, I don't see the problem, and that includes groups I don't qualify for. Knights of Columbus must be Catholics, P.E.O. members must be women, etc. Even as Masons, we don't accept all men.
     
  19. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    I am indeed - for about 30 years.
     
  20. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    Disclaimer: As always, the following is only my opinion.
    Freemasonry comes from a time when the roles of men and women in society were much more distinct than they are today. (And a very good argument can be made that this division of roles and duties has specific advantages for society) Freemasonry was specifically designed to teach men the skills that were attributed to men in those days. Using this explanation I agree with both statements. In the past teaching men to be men was considered so it was important that it was restricted to men. Today teaching men to be men is not considered to be important.
     
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